What about a checklist of traits for chimp ID?

by ksigler moderator

I was thinking it might be helpful for people trying to ID chimps if there was a checklist of things to look for and match... for example:

Full head of hair, or balding?
Any visible scars or injuries?
Is there damage (torn, missing, etc.) to one or both of the ears?
Rounded brow or straight brow? Prominent or flat?

Photo examples could be provided, as necessary. Does anyone else think this would be helpful? Does something like this already exist somewhere?

Posted July 8, 2015 2:08 AM

by jwidness moderator

If it exists, I haven't seen it, but I think it's a great idea! I saw a similar list for Semliki (a field site in Uganda directed by Kevin Hunt of Indiana University) that I'm copying directly from their website (http://www.indiana.edu/~semliki/DataProtocols.shtml):

1.) Baldness pattern, if any

2.) Ear shape, including any cuts or amputations

3.) Color of face or other body parts

4.) Scars, on any body part, but especially the face and ears

5.) Inspect each individual finger or each hand and each individual toe. Note missing, misshapen or otherwise injured digits, including how much of each is missing. Draw a picture of anything unusual.

6.) Note color, length or texture of hair if it seems unusual

7.) Note any missing teeth

8.) Describe the body build

9.) For estrous females draw a picture of the swelling--it is usually distinctive. For males note spots or coloration of the scrotum, or any other unusual genital features

10.) Look for features on the face such as wrinkles, bags, shape of nose, shape of brow ridge, shape of face in profile, or beard.

Some of these things are too hard to see in our videos, but maybe this will help get ideas flowing : )

They also have a page of their chimp IDs http://www.indiana.edu/~semliki/ChimpIDs.shtml that might be interesting to browse.

Posted July 8, 2015 3:26 AM

by ksigler moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind! I knew someone had to have done this before. Their chimp ID page is pretty cool, and reminds me of the same notes that we keep here.

I've seen where some organizations use facial recognition software for chimps, and maybe that will happen with this data eventually, but it seems that if we could codify the descriptions on our own, we could come up with something similar for use right now. For (a very simplified) example, RWFem06-B10RbSg could be Red Water Female #06, Balding, Left ear damage, Right ear no damage, Round brows, Some gray. Then later, we find RWFem23-B1?RbSg. Bingo -- other than not being sure about the right ear, we have a candidate for a match. This is maybe a larger undertaking than necessary, but something to think about, even if just as a side-experiment to see how it compares to our current methods.

But, at the very least, a checklist like this would help people analyze methodically, focusing on what is helpful for ID purposes and maintaining consistent terminology.

Posted July 8, 2015 4:51 AM

by MimiA scientist, moderator

HI guys - we definitely would like to have this level of detail for the prospective and known chimps - if you think we should be adding more details to these pages please let the science moderators know (Nuria for Muddy Frost for example) and she can update the descriptions for each chimp.

Posted July 8, 2015 10:22 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

hey guys, if you think that the chimps descriptions in Muddy Frost 7 should be improved, please let me know and I can work on it 😃

Posted July 8, 2015 10:55 AM

by jwidness moderator

We weren't trying to suggest the current descriptions are deficient! Just that for new users, an organized checklist to help write descriptions of chimps they find might be useful 😃

Posted July 8, 2015 11:36 AM

by AnLand moderator

Basically, I would like to have a more standardised approach. But on the other hand, I am observing that the site and the discussions are already now an information overkill for non-native English speakers. Which explains - in my view - the very low participation rate, that is worrying. If we can find a way to organize all this and still be appealing to lay persons (as this is a citizen science project), I would be very happy.

Posted July 8, 2015 11:42 AM

by ksigler moderator

Good point, @AnLand. It's information overload for me sometimes, and I'm a native English speaker! Yes, a standardized way of describing is the intent. Not everyone is visually detail-oriented, and there are times when all of us focus on one or two traits of an individual, and overlook something else. Having a list or form of some sort will help remind us to check for everything when describing or trying to match a chimp. Also, when someone says "prominent ears" or "relatively protruded lips," it's not so much up to interpretation. We could have a standard, or normal example, with guidance for placing an individual on the spectrum.

The current descriptions are certainly fine. This would just help volunteers develop and use those descriptions easier and with more consistency when trying to describe a chimp they've found. People like doing things when they're easy. 😃

Posted July 8, 2015 1:15 PM

by jwidness moderator

Only sort of on topic: to cut down on the information overload, would anyone object to taking the inactive site discussions off the featured area? I would be happy to do it, but I wanted to check first in case anyone would prefer to keep them there. 😃

Posted July 9, 2015 2:37 AM

by Snorticus

Opening the window with their chimp descriptions: http://www.indiana.edu/~semliki/ChimpIDs.shtml

Beside a window with photos of their individual chimps: http://www.indiana.edu/~semliki/PhotosChimpanzees.shtml

Gave me a chance to see clear examples of the differences in the chimp characteristics that you all discuss. For me as a lay person, it's difficult to tell chimps apart because I haven't practiced looking at enough individual chimps to know what to look for.
Comparing these two pages will help with that.

Posted July 9, 2015 4:18 AM

by Snorticus

One other thought - we are dealing with raw data here so it's a cumulative process with lots of steps, from the initial general labeling of the clip content, on down through the many steps required to sort the data according to pertinent details which will identify individual chimps in the clips.

The Semliki list seems to pare the chimp ID details they are seeking down some and it seems lay-person friendly. Are there other specific traits that chimp and see scientists are looking for when they are using this data that might go on a checklist? Would lay persons filling in a checklist for what are known traits of individual chimps be helpful to the scientists or would it just be more work to deal with it in addition to all the other data?

Posted July 9, 2015 5:20 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

This is very interesting...

I made a VERY simple list that helped me a lot putting my mind together when all this started...maybe you find it useful too?

CHIMPS DESCRIPTION CRITERIA:

FUR: color, thick, light...
BODY: big, small, robust, skinny, round...
EARS: regular, big, small, presenting cuts, folded...
FACE FEATURES: beard (color, no beard, etc), tufts, muzzle shape (big, pronounced lower lip, etc), nostrils (big, small, large, etc), forehead (wide, etc), pigmentation (spots, dark/whitish areas, etc), shape (narrow, elongated, round, etc), eyebrows (protruded, round, straight, dips, etc).
REMARKABLE TRAITS: limb, ear missing, etc.

Actually this list is similar to those that @ksigler and @jwidness posted above...do you think this could help a bit?

please any idea, suggestion, annotation, correction, etc. will be very appreciated, 😃

Posted July 9, 2015 10:14 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

I like it. Keeps it simple and everybody can discuss this at the discussion boards without feeling overwhelmed by the amount of details he/she needs to take into account.

If we are posting this anywhere more prominent (in this already now long discussion, nobody will ever find it), I would change the order due to the kind of material we are watching here and to make it more easily assessible for lay persons: body, face, ears, fur, and remarkable traits. Maybe we should include after body or as part of it: sex. That is easily forgotten as experience shows.

Posted July 9, 2015 10:36 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

thanks for your suggestions.

I pinned it on this discussion board, so that it´s more visible, and changed the order.

But sex already appears on the description, see on the prospective/known chimps board: FEMALE / ADULT / UNKNOWN / INFANT / ...
is this what you mean?

Posted July 9, 2015 10:49 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

I thought this is a list for everybody about what they could say about a chimp to describe it. Sex is the most basic thing. The prospective/known chimps list is filled by you or another scientist. I trust that you know what to write there ...

Posted July 9, 2015 10:55 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

yes, that´s our (scientists) part. But I thought that the descriptions on the chimps need to be somehow improved, and although the scientists are the ones updating the list, we take your descriptions into account.

I was only thinking of a way of standardizing our descriptions for the future...

but adding `sex´ won´t hurt anyone 😃

Posted July 9, 2015 11:13 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

Yes, but as an information for improvement for everybody who is interested, independent from his or her prior knowledge. I really feel that we should not actively exclude people. You can look through the discussions of the past weeks. Not so many different persons posted there at all and - as an absolute lay person myself - I think because they are afraid to say something stupid. I think @PauDG remembers my first public thoughts on chimps over at Red Water ... 😉

Posted July 9, 2015 11:22 AM

by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

I think even our mixed terminology here is causing confusion. 😃 The descriptions on the prospective list, written by scientists, don't need to be improved. Think of the checklist as part of the, "I found a chimpanzee, now what do I do?" post. For volunteers to be thorough, accurate and consistent in their observations.

I like the chimp description criteria list. Having a list of the options to pick from is helpful. For example -- for eyebrows, I (really) have no idea what "dips" means. I may have been calling something "slanted" when a more common or appropriate term is "dips," but I wasn't aware of it.

Posted July 9, 2015 11:45 AM

by jwidness moderator

Getting back to the idea of face recognition software, I saw these two interesting articles about it: Loos & Ernst, 2013, and Sandwell & Burghardt, 2013.

I don't know enough to say whether the Chimp & See dataset is suitable for such a technique, but it definitely looks interesting! (And as a side note, it seems that some of the scientists from Chimp & See were collaborators for these papers.)

Posted July 10, 2015 2:16 PM

by MimiA scientist, moderator

Yes, Hjalmar Kuehl, co director of the PanAf, has been working on this for some time with the authors! But for it to work, you need to train the software with known matches, so basically all the work you guys are doing at finding matches could be used for testing and training the software, especially if long term bio monitoring every happened at these sites.

Also, the software requires that the chimps looks square in front of the camera for a full facial image for them to be detected (whether it is just about detection or individual identification) I am sure you can tell from all the videos you watched that this is a pretty major limitation for a good proportion of the videos.

Nevertheless it is a great tool and we plan on comparing the chimp&see results to the automated software down the road!

Posted July 10, 2015 9:34 PM