Esme and Menopause

• by Quia moderator

  Mimi and jwidness were discussing the possibility of Esme being post-reproductive and how it wasn't likely in a wild chimp... I thought I'd go ahead and take a look at this venerable old lady, since we have seen her a LOT, you'd think at least one of these videos would show some change in tumescence.

  So here's Esme. 14 videos from February 2013 to April 2014. Pretty amazing coverage, actually. We have about one video a month for 5 months, and then a gap where we haven't found her(yet), and then 4 videos within 30 days at the end of 2013. This is not including all the wonderful videos of her face, but amusingly those great videos for ID are not what I was looking for here!

  2/18/2013 8:38:34 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/552038ff69736d72e6503402/previews/552038ff69736d72e6503402_6.jpg
  
  3/23/2013 9:13:27 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/552038e369736d72e6a22a02/previews/552038e369736d72e6a22a02_14.jpg
  
  4/18/2013 9:31:49 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520399469736d72e6af6602/previews/5520399469736d72e6af6602_0.jpg
  
  5/11/2013 15:26:54 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520392b69736d72e6624302/previews/5520392b69736d72e6624302_0.jpg
  
  5/17/2013 13:13:07 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520399569736d72e6e36602/previews/5520399569736d72e6e36602_14.jpg
  
  6/12/2013 10:13:31 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520399469736d72e69d6602/previews/5520399469736d72e69d6602_3.jpg
  
  11/8/2013 12:33:10 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520386f69736d72e6970502/previews/5520386f69736d72e6970502_4.jpg
  
  11/24/2013 16:41:21 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520393869736d72e6d24702/previews/5520393869736d72e6d24702_0.jpg
  
  11/30/2013 11:42:51 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520386d69736d72e6e40402/previews/5520386d69736d72e6e40402_1.jpg
  
  12/6/2013 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520393969736d72e6124802/previews/5520393969736d72e6124802_0.jpg
  
  12/22/2013 8:01:00 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520392769736d72e6c94102/previews/5520392769736d72e6c94102_7.jpg
  
  1/10/2014 10:47:34 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/552038fd69736d72e6e03302/previews/552038fd69736d72e6e03302_1.jpg
  
  2/14/2014 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520393a69736d72e6724802/previews/5520393a69736d72e6724802_0.jpg
  
  4/2/2014 8:44:52 https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5520387069736d72e62f0602/previews/5520387069736d72e62f0602_10.jpg
  

  I don't think she's managing to sneak cycles in when we're not looking, we're looking at her a lot!

  Posted August 1, 2015 12:52 AM

• by jwidness moderator

  Wow, what a collection! I don't see how we could have missed much of anything.

  Posted August 1, 2015 1:09 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  Great collecting effort! So, @NuriaM explained the cycles in the Anita discussion: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00006xg. There was also a paper from Tobias Deschner that someone posted (I cannot find the link at the moment) with more information. Could it be that she has swellings in between the moments we are seeing her? I mean that is the main question: Can we exclude this possibility or not?

  Posted August 1, 2015 5:18 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  Two more things came into my mind: what would be the null hypothesis here: that she would cycle at least once in six months, in three months, more/less often? The other thing is that I got from the literature that anestrous females will not associate with males that often. So, in the solitary scenes being anestrous is what we are expecting. The more informative times are the ones when she is associated with males and here, I think all occassions where we could learn something about their interaction. Just some things that came into my mind.

  I think, the DNApes blog at facebook posted this link http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-jersey-27913515 about an orangutan going through menopause. (I cannot find the original mention anymore.) From what I understand, they only confirmed by medical examination (testing hormones) and she is not a wild living orangutan.

  Posted August 1, 2015 6:29 AM

• by Quia moderator

  Hmm.. averages for Chimpanzees, a ~37 day cycle, with 10-14 days of that in estrus.

  I think, with the videos from November 2013 - January 2014, we can say that, at least, she's not cycling regularly, because there are 6 videos in that short time period and she's not showing any signs in any of them. Looking at the dates of all the other videos it might be possible to say more, but I'm curious what the science team thinks of this so far.

  Posted August 2, 2015 4:56 AM

• by MimiA scientist, moderator

  hi guys, i wont be online as often in the next 2 weeks but this is really cool and i will follow up on it. Quia, it would be great if you could link to the relevant videos so i can try to get a better look at the swelling, it could be that Esme just has a smal swelling or it could be something like menopause or at least a reproductive slow down. Regarding her association with males, remember that these are tendancies and not hard and fast rules, we often see non estrous females wih males, so it does not tell us much. More soon!

  Posted August 2, 2015 11:50 PM

• by Quia moderator

  Here they all are, same order as the previous list, some of them have multiple videos.

  ACP00054f3

  ACP00052i9
  ACP00052ia
  ACP00052ib

  ACP0005eda

  ACP00057e9
  ACP00057ea
  ACP00057eb

  ACP0005eeq
  ACP0005eer

  ACP0005ecr
  ACP0005ecs

  ACP0004v6u
  ACP0004v6v

  ACP000589t
  ACP000589u

  ACP0004v1u
  ACP0004v1v

  ACP000571b
  ACP000571c

  ACP000572w

  ACP00054bz
  ACP00054c0

  ACP00058e9

  ACP0004vb2
  ACP0004vb3

  Thanks for looking in to this more Mimi! Emse sure is an interesting old lady. 😃

  Posted August 3, 2015 3:36 AM

• by AnLand moderator in response to MimiA's comment.

  Hi @MimiA,

  that was not my argument. I understand it like this: if she is estrous there is a much higher likelyhood that she would associate with males. Whereas if she is somewhere solitary on her own, we do not really expect a big swelling. So, in my opinion we need to look especially in the sequences when she associates with males, lesser in the other ones. But that was only an idea. Clearly, you are all better experts here than me. 😃

  Posted August 3, 2015 6:35 AM

• by akalan scientist

  Great inquiry! wow! Esme is definitely an old lady but from the sequences we have she could still be cycling since as an older lady her sexual swelling phase is likely to not be as long, can be as short as 4-7 days, so there is a chance she's sneaking them in. It would be good to look at videos where she is not alone as indeed if she is swollen she would associate more with males. As mimi wrote, as females get older physiologically they do exhibit a reproductive slow down where they may not cycle properly for some months but then all of a sudden will resume cycling and have a baby. If we can continue to compile footage though, perhaps we could nicely document the length of time that we have Esme on video, where we can be sure she did not cycle once, that would be great.

  Posted August 3, 2015 8:33 AM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Hi all,
  in the videos ACP00057e9 and ACP00057ea is not Esme, because Esme has a very big cut in the left ear that we can not see in these videos.

  Posted August 3, 2015 9:50 AM

• by jwidness moderator

  Updated the list since we're almost done with Crimson Dew -- 40 videos in total now and not one with a swelling!

  2/17/2013 ACP00058pd

  2/18/2013 ACP00054f3

  between 3/11/2013 and 3/14/2013 (can't read the date) ACP0005e79

  3/23/2013 ACP00052i9 ACP00052ia ACP00052ib

  4/16/2013 ACP00057ih

  4/18/2013 ACP0005eda

  5/11/2013 ACP00057e9 ACP00057ea ACP00057eb

  5/17/2013 ACP0005eeq ACP0005eer

  6/10/2013 ACP0005ecf

  6/12/2013 ACP0005ecr ACP0005ecs

  7/25/2013 ACP0005fh6

  8/23/2013 ACP00056u3

  10/7/2013 ACP00054te

  10/23/2013 ACP00051fe

  11/8/2013 ACP0004v6u ACP0004v6v

  11/12/2013 ACP000581i

  11/22/2013 ACP0005d0g

  11/24/2013 ACP000589t ACP000589u

  11/24/2013 ACP00057b6

  11/30/2013 ACP0004v1u ACP0004v1v

  12/6/2013 ACP00058bl

  12/6/2013 ACP000571b ACP000571c

  12/22/2013 ACP000572w

  1/10/2014 ACP00055sd

  1/10/2014 ACP00054bz ACP00054c0

  1/14/2014 ACP0005dhx

  1/22/2014 ACP0004zq9

  1/22/2014 ACP00050a2

  2/1/2014 ACP0004xj3

  2/14/2014 ACP00058e9

  2/14/2014 ACP00055nl

  3/3/2014 ACP00055s1

  3/3/2014 ACP00058fd

  3/6/2014 ACP00058fm

  3/9/2014 ACP0004zog

  3/17/2014 ACP00050af

  3/23/2014 ACP000564q

  4/1/2014 ACP0004zo4

  4/1/2014 ACP00050bn

  4/2/2014 ACP0004vb2 ACP0004vb3

  Posted August 21, 2015 3:19 AM

• by AnLand moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

  @PauDG did not confirm ACP00057e9, ACP00057ea, ACP00057eb, I think - and I also think that is not Esme (see last posting before yours).

  Posted August 21, 2015 7:03 AM