Chimp & See Talk

Sara & Sage?

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    I think these 2 fit the description of Sara and Sage (tag collection: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/collections/CCPL000018 ).

    ACP000094w

    Mother and large infant

    No sign of Sam, the older juvenile seen with them before, and the spreadsheet shows no other chimp clips in the sequence.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    At least, I can say that I thought about this too. I cannot really make sense about the strange face of Sara - this female here also has a strange face, but differently strange maybe? I am not sure. I think Sage's face looks a bit "finer". But yes, I saw something here too.

    The other variant I thought about was the robust looking version of Juno with Jay.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I still have problems with the video @ksigler mentioned here first. It is almost a year later than the confirmed Sara & Sage footage, so the infant might look considerably bigger and her face - if it is something temporary might look different.

    This footage here fall in the mid of the confirmed videos and might be Sara and Sage. The age fits well and she has a undefiniable face structure (to me it looks a bit like burnt). Again without Sam. ACP0000b2o

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    @AnLand, I agree that this is Sara/Sage. The mother has the characteristic dark muzzle on a full gray head, like Sara.

    I also think it's possible that the robust version of Juno/Jay you mention are also Sara/Sage. Not positive, though.

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    Any other opinions about these two clips as matches to Sara & Sage?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The juvenile of video ACP00002dw from the identifiable chimp list looks a lot like Sage, Sara's infant.

    Everything seems to fit in that face: the very round brows circling the eyes, the bright muzzle, the roundish bald spot above the brows, the dark cheeks, the nose a little less bright than the muzzle and deep set pale ears. I think also the size fits. In the second pic of Sage we can see that s/he's already quite big - maybe too big to be carried around all the time. The videos are only about 20 days apart.

    The mother rushes by in the background but I think I can shortly see a gray back though I have to look hard to recognize anything about her. So it's all about the infant here.

    juvenile / infant from ACP00002dw
    enter image description here

    Sage

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Well, @Boleyn -- other than the bald spot, your screenshots here are pretty convincing for me. To me, the bald spot looks much deeper and rounder in Sage (both clips) than in 02dw. I suppose you could argue that it looks bigger because Sage is riding on the mother's back in the two known clips, but is on the ground in 02dw. Not sure. But, otherwise, I would swear I was looking at the same face. So, maybe that's enough, to only have a doubt about the size of the bald spot.

    (Just for recordkeeping: ACP00002e0 is a continuation of ACP00002dw.)

    Also, I retract my original suggestion here about 094w. No bald spot at all on the juvenile. Chalk it up to inexperience. 😃 However, I do agree with @AnLand 's proposal of ACP0000b2o being Sara and Sage.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Sorry @Boleyn for the delay, I had missed this thread 😮

    I absolutely agree with

    ACP00002dw / ACP00002e0 / = Sara and Sage

    ACP0000b2o = Sara and Sage

    Thanks Kris for weighing in 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Kris I think the difference between the bald spots comes from the different lightning conditions. The ones where Sage is riding on mothers back are a bit overexposed. The other video is darker and thus the bright area seems to be smaller.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I find it very convincing 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I do not agree here. We cannot exclude other big infants / juveniles - like Caio, QWJuv09, 10, 11 - who also have a round balding. Most infants and juveniles at this site have it. I also think that something is wrong with the female's gait and probably one of the arms (the right arm, specifically). You can see moving her right shoulder up and with that the arm forward like Claire is doing it. I think that these are Claire and Caio in ACP00002dw. Claire is - like this female - also not so slim and Caio has the right size, brows and baldness. I cannot see anything that ties this infant / juvenile specifically to Sara and Sage.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    But we don´t only mean the round balding, but the whole face of the infant.

    I see what you mean in Claire´s way of moving her right arm, but I don´t get to see it in the female in ACP00002dw. Also, Claire looks thinner than the female in ACP00002dw to me. Look at their hind limbs: in ACP00002dw you can see a typical adult robust broad, rounded appearance of her hip and thighs, and I think you can see a clear difference in Claire here, even if Claire is closer to the camera, her hind limbs look thinner:

    left ACP00002dw , right Claire and Caio in ACP00001ql

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    I agree that Claire is much thinner, and her arm is almost never used at all when walking. It just swings limply. I don't think that's the case in ACP00002dw. Any other suggestions, or does that leave us at a Sara/Sage match?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Thanks Kris!

    I would love to focus on Sara and Sage first, and if we finally rule this match out, I was thinking of the possibility of proposing QWFam12A/B. But this I need to check again.

    Posted