Olga

• by Quia moderator

  ACP0002v33 ACP0002v34 ACP0002v35 ACP0002v36

  Face shot from 33, swellings visible in 36. The chimp in the background is in 34 but we never see his(?) face clearly just the body shape. Big guy! Or girl, we've seen some pretty large females in this area, too...

  I'm having trouble telling apart the juveniles at this site... the face looks similar to 1.. and 6, and 7, to me. :\

  

  Posted April 30, 2015 4:21 PM

• by vestigial

  She seems to have some crazy hair sticking out from behind the lower part of her ears. That probably isn't good for identification though since I image hair can change as they grow.

  Posted April 30, 2015 9:38 PM

• by Giulia_Sirianni scientist in response to Quia's comment.

  The juveniles are very difficult to identify, don´t worry!

  Unfortunately we cannot say much about the other individuals!

  Posted May 4, 2015 7:50 PM

• by Giulia_Sirianni scientist in response to vestigial's comment.

  The hairs coming out are a good sign for the identification!

  Posted May 4, 2015 7:51 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  @Giulia_Siranni and @Quia:

  The adult has a gray lower back and gray hair on the front of the legs. Need to ask: why are you sure that the juvenile is female? Is that, what you see, already a swelling? If I compare that with this video: ACP00037ns (#Ada and #Ilo) I see it too. And here it was said it was male. (Also #Ada with gray back and legs.) (Ok, I am definitely not an expert here!)

  ACP0002v36, ACP0002v34 etc.

  Posted May 9, 2015 12:03 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Hi @AnLand

  look this video from Ada and Ilo ( http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037nr) Can you see "something" in Ilo? especially something hanging in the second 8? this is the reason why I've bet that is a male, but never sure 100%, is difficult 😃

  Posted May 9, 2015 2:52 PM

• by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

  Yes, I totally agree with this. I am referring here to the pair discussed here. Because I am thinking, it is the same pair. And in this case, they say the juvenile looks female because of swelling I cannot see. And the adult looks a lot like Ada in this video: ACP0002v34 (same gray legs and lower back) and the juvenile - discussed here - is maybe not female, but male as we saw in the other video from Ilo.

  Posted May 9, 2015 3:01 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Question: how old is that juvenile? - it is the earliest picture of the pair. Could his/her mother have another infant soon?

  Posted May 9, 2015 3:44 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Wild speculation: the female chimp (Ada) had another infant (Ilo) - as seen in later videos: ACP0003g6h and ACP0003g6i and is here seen with both infant (Ilo) and juvenile (female): ACP0002r9n - I agree only the gray lower back and legs and what I think is a bald spot above the right eye hold it together. I do not know anything about growth rate and there are only max. 8 months in between ... Cheers!

  Posted May 9, 2015 4:06 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  And this two months earlier: ACP0002wob (June 2013) - considerably bigger than at all other pics. Maybe pregnant with the second one (Ilo). In August 2013 you cannot see for sure whether she is carrying an infant. In September, you can see it clearly. (It is: rwinf04 and rwfem04).

  Posted May 9, 2015 4:44 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  At least RWFem04 (here: first second: ACP0002woc) seems to have the same swelling as this one carrying a baby (in addition to the gray legs: ACP0003g6i, 10th second) - three month apart. Dark face.

  Posted May 9, 2015 4:54 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  hi @Anland
  sorry but I am a little confused...are you asking if the first chimp of this thread (ACP0002v33 ACP0002v34 ACP0002v35 ACP0002v36) could be Ilo?

  Posted May 9, 2015 5:19 PM

• by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

  That was my first idea. But I think the dates do not match. But, yes, I think, the adult female in all the videos I post during my explanations is Ada. With two infants in a row (the older one a female discussed here, the younger one Ilo in other sequences). I know, it is pure speculation as I do not now about the kids. Sorry, confusing ...

  Posted May 9, 2015 5:31 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Don't worry, we are just talking and trying to ID chimp the best we can, but is difficult and also with all this videos it can be confusing.
  Exactly...I was going to tell you that it couldn't be because of the dates, but let´s see if we are able to see if the adult is actually Ada...
  Thanks for all the work you're doing!

  Posted May 9, 2015 5:38 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  This short discussion by @vestigial fits also in my thoughts: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000h/discussions/DCP00003i7

  Posted May 9, 2015 5:42 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I tried to compare the possible ages of these kids with the other family (Alia, Amelia and Anganeta) and in my impression it would not be so different ...

  Posted May 9, 2015 5:48 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  But here you have been talking about other videos, right?

  Posted May 9, 2015 8:00 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Sorry, @PauDG I am not sure about your comment. The "other" family: yes, these are other videos and another family (female Anganeta with two kids of different age, Alia and Amelia). But all the videos I mentioned along the way here belong to the "Ada-family", a gray-legged, gray-backed female chimp. In my opinion, she has two kids. Ilo is the younger one and already identified and tagged. If you want, I can make (tomorrow!) a proposed timeline that includes all discussions about that topic. I already found one more by @vestigial from 11 days ago. I am not sure how the annotating of red-water-6 is going. If we are not nearly at the end, I might be totally wrong, but the moment I think we are talking about the same individual.

  Posted May 9, 2015 8:09 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  I meant that

  • @vestigial is talking about this videos ( http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003by6) 03/11/2013
  • and you are talking about this videos ( http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v36) 11/08/2013

  We are agree than the ACP0003by6 is NOT Ilo, because in this video the chimp is older than the Ilo, and the date is earlier, right?
  And then, about the thread opened by Vestigial (we could talk about it there), we have said that we are not sure about if is Ada or not.

  are you agree with this?

  Posted May 9, 2015 8:42 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I will make a timeline. Ilo first appeared in September 2013. His sister before (June and August 2013). Only in January both of them. Sorry, I am now to tired to match the videos. Will do this tomorrow. RWFem04 = Ada, RWInf04 = Ilo's sister. (As it seems to me right now. Will sleep over it.)

  Posted May 9, 2015 9:01 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  When you can, don´t worry, no hurry.
  But do you agree with my previous comment?, I just wanna be sure that we understand each other...
  see you tomorrow

  Posted May 9, 2015 9:08 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Here my proposed timeline. The weak link would be the September 2013 video, but if we agree on the fact that Ada has two young (Ilo and Lulu) that does not really matter and we can wait whether other sequences emerge from the data. RWInf04 = Lulu, RWFem04 = Ada. Ada and Ilo have already been identified several times and tagged.

  2013-06-23
  Lulu on her own, cracking nuts with a big stone
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002wpx
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002wpy
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002wpz

  2013-08-11
  Lulu in front of a tree, Ada behind (well seen with gray legs in v34)
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v34
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v35
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v36

  2013-08-12
  First Lulu alone, then Ada picking up her older child. Looks very massive, maybe pregnant (with Ilo). Large swelling visible.
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002woa
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002wob
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002woc

  2013-09-18
  Ada with a new baby (Ilo). I agree that she looks considerably grayer than in all other video. She has a big swelling and her inner thighs are much darker (like we've seen in Ada). They are not uniformly gray. Also the lower back in not grayer (the area that is gray) than in other videos. The dark face and slight baldness above the eyes (more on the left) fits Ada. The video is shot in quite a distance and light is different. (This is all speculation and based on the proposed timeline and the fact that we – until now – only saw one female with this degree of grayness)
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003g6h
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003g6i

  2013-11-03
  Ada carrying Ilo on her back
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003by6

  2014-01-08
  Lulu nutcracking, Ilo playing next to her. Ada picks Ilo up. Also here you see the gray legs very uniformly colored on the outside, but darker on the insight.
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002r9l
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002r9m
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002r9n

  without a time stamp
  Ada and Ilo. He is playing, she is cracking nuts
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003dz3
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003dz4
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003dz5

  2014-03-11
  Ada and Ilo. Him hanging in a tree, she is cracking nuts
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037nq
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037nr
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037ns
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037nt
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037nz
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037o3
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00037o5

  Posted May 10, 2015 6:36 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  Here is another gray-legged female carrying a baby on 2014-03-10. Swelling is there, but not very big.
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00038vq

  Posted May 10, 2015 7:42 AM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  Hi @AnLand, great job you have done, I really appreciate it.
  But there are some things that do not fit. If as you say Ada was pregnant in 2013-8-12, that means that in 2014-1-8 Ilo should be (as much) 5 months old, and the chimp of this video seems be 3 or 4 years old...

  And in these videos (2013-09-18 and 2013-11-03 ) are too far/fast to be sure that they are Ada and Ilo.

  Posted May 10, 2015 12:42 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Could we briefly clear what exactly means "very young infant"? I do not know anything about that and it is from a moderator. I will later go to google to look at chimp growth rates.

  Posted May 10, 2015 12:53 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Please, remind me in which video we have said "very young infant" and I will try to tell you more or less the age of that chimp (but some times is not easy at all)

  Posted May 10, 2015 1:26 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Here in the known and prospective chimp discussion: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000h/discussions/DCP00000r9

  Posted May 10, 2015 1:43 PM

• by ksigler moderator

  Has a scientist confirmed that RWFem04=Ada? They look quite different to me. Ada has much more gray on the legs, and RWFem04 seem to have more muscle tone in the chest.

  Posted May 10, 2015 1:50 PM

• by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

  No, no. We are discussing this only. And I am clearly not good in this. 😉

  Posted May 10, 2015 1:53 PM

• by ksigler moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  Haha, okay, just checking. 😃 I've learned, and must keep reminding myself, that it's important not to run too far based on assumptions. Our brains have a tendency to look for details that support our assumptions (or hopes), causing us to overlook evidence of a different result.

  And I wouldn't say you're not good at it! I'm not as familiar with Ada & Ilo, but you seem to have good recordkeeping of the clips you've seen, which is important for the discussion. 😃

  Posted May 10, 2015 2:07 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  AnLand! You're doing great!

  Posted May 10, 2015 7:36 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Here is a new sequence (at least I did not see before): ACP00031z4 (gray lower back, gray legs, very light swelling), with female juvenile with a quite round belly from 2013-08-16. The adult is quite big.

  Cf. with this sequence (2013-08-11):
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v34
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v35
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v36

  I would like to point her out as well: March 2014: ACP0002ucy, ACP0002ucz, ACP0002ud0 and ACP0002ud1.

  Posted May 12, 2015 9:18 PM

• by Quia moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  I think those are all the same juvenile! I am less sure about the adult because we see so little of her in the background, but it's always a large, stocky chimp. I think that that ACP00031z4 is the first video where we actually see her swellings to know she's female. I thought it was a male, she's so big!

  Hopefully one of the scientists agrees they're the same. 😃

  Posted May 12, 2015 9:54 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I am not so sure about this shoot, but might be her too: ACP0002wod (June 2013) (quite often on her own!)
  ACP0002woe
  ACP0002wof
  ACP0002wog

  Posted May 13, 2015 5:49 AM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Hi all

  this last one I think is little older, but what do you think about this 3? (you have talked about some of these videos but I am not sure if about all)

  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00036er http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00036es
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00036et

  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002ucy
  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002ucz http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002ud0 http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002ud1

  http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0002v34

  Posted May 13, 2015 9:13 AM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  We are going to put this chimp in the list of "known chimps".
  Someone want to propose a name?

  Posted May 13, 2015 9:57 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  I would like to propose Olga (for the juvenile, right?). She is so round ...

  Posted May 13, 2015 10:38 AM

• by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

  Oh, great I did not make this last connection ACP00036er etc. Cool, so we already saw her four times and her mother three times only briefly from behind. Need to find her face next. Thank you.

  Posted May 13, 2015 2:42 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Another juvenile cracking nuts with a rock. Unfortunately only seen from behind. Not very routine tool usage in my opinion
  May 2013
  ACP0002rqt
  ACP0002rqu
  ACP0002rqv
  ACP0002rqw
  ACP0002rqx
  ACP0002rqy
  ACP0002rqz

  Apparantly I already had another short posting about it some days ago (that only makes a time connection).

  Posted May 13, 2015 3:01 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Here (sorry forgot the link): http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000d/discussions/DCP00003p4

  Posted May 13, 2015 3:04 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Found one more. Her face barely seen.
  ACP0002rr0

  Another tool user is heard nearby.

  Posted May 13, 2015 3:09 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Some more footage on her in this posting: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000h/discussions/DCP00001s7

  Posted May 13, 2015 3:12 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  

  

  More: ACP0002rpk with a good view of her face and her round belly.
  ACP0002rpg
  ACP0002rph
  ACP0002rpi
  ACP0002rpj

  I really try not to jump to any conclusions, but could please some look more knowledgeable to compare it with this: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000h/discussions/DCP00002aj (last posts about the juvenile, I would like to name Olga). Thanks.

  Posted May 13, 2015 3:23 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  ACP0002rpd
  ACP0002rpe
  ACP0002rpf

  Posted May 13, 2015 3:24 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I proposed that earlier, but did not see the whole sequence here. She (RWJuv06) looks very much alike to the chimp, we now named Olga. ACP00030wl
  Here ACP00030wm, the mother is seen (again not good), but with gray lower back and slightly gray legs, the almost not visible as in the other three occasions.

  Posted May 14, 2015 1:38 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Especially compared with this sequence: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00036er http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00036es http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00036et

  

  

  Posted May 14, 2015 1:44 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Hi, the first one seems Olga, but the second one I am not sure...
  If you want, as there is already a thread talking about this second chimp, you can remove the photo and the video link of this second chimp, and I will merge the rest of the thread with the thread about Olga.

  Thanks

  Posted May 14, 2015 4:49 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Yes, that second thread is entirely by me and nobody seems to discuss it with me. The photo is from there. So, you can delete that part here and I will see whether anybody else will have a take on this other discussion. Thanks!

  Posted May 14, 2015 4:54 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Ok, I removed the posting. Or shall I delete the whole thread?

  Posted May 14, 2015 5:22 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  No no, like this. Thanks!!

  Posted May 14, 2015 5:23 PM

• by ksigler moderator

  From what I've seen, I'd say yes to a match with Olga. The location, ambidextrous use of that rock, protruding lower lip on the right side, and strong angle in left ear. Need a scientist to confirm, though.

  Posted May 15, 2015 4:13 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  This previous discussion links some videos of the missing minutes in my post: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000h/discussions/DCP00001s7

  ACP0002rq9, ACP0002rqa, ACP0002rqa, and ACP0002rqc

  

  Posted May 17, 2015 3:02 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Yes, is Olga!

  Posted May 17, 2015 4:54 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Great, thanks! I will tag the videos ...

  Posted May 17, 2015 4:59 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Thanks!

  Posted May 17, 2015 5:02 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  Some new videos emerged within a confirmed scene: ACP0002v3b (better look at her mother?, but still no face shot), ACP0002v3c, ACP0002v3d, and ACP0002v3e

  (found by @rlb66xyz)

  Posted May 28, 2015 7:23 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Perfect, thanks!

  Posted May 29, 2015 7:52 AM