Chimp & See Talk

SUGGESTIONS TO THE POSSIBLE MATCHES LIST

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    @AnLand found this one. The beard, balding, and weird mostly removed right ear make me think it's Peter. Thoughts?

    ACP0003va7

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Quia's comment.

    Are you sure, there is no right ear? I thought about it, but I am not sure that it is really missing. Also, he seems to be much grayer / whiter around the nostrils and overall more compact than Peter. Just my thoughts.

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Nope, not entirely sure about the ear. Peter has a small pinkish hairless bit where his ear should be, but we've never seen it up close. I'm not sure if this fellow just has his ears very close to his head, or if it's gone on that side.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hey guys...I think I see an ear. I asked for more opinions at home ( 😉 ) and they all see an ear.

    Sorry, I don´t think it´s our Peter 😦

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I would like to propose a match to him: MF7Male07: same grayer area around the nostrils incl. the white spot under the left nostril (much more white than Peter if one can tell from a distance from his videos). Ears hardly comparable as little seen. Left one only seen in one sequence, right not well in both.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    yes, I think you are right...I will write it down on MF7Male13

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Did you already check our POSSIBLE MATCHES LIST ?

    any ideas and suggestions are very much welcome 😉

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    To kick start the matching discussion (and because I already proposed the matches I feel very strong about) I propose an adventurous matching, I am not really sure about:

    MF7Fem01 = MF7Fem14 = MF7Fem05

    MF7Inf01 = Mf7Inf10 (I already proposed this earlier here: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00005w2) = MF7Inf05

    For the female: MF7Fem01 is never seen with her face. Her back is lean with big swelling, very black fur, all over she seems to be quite thin and is similar to MF7Fem05 from that back perspective.

    MF7Fem01:

    enter image description here

    MF7Fem05:

    enter image description here

    (Unfortunately one cannot say much more about them. Both ears present and without cuts. No visbible irregularities.)

    Face: MF7Fem14 and MF705 both has a gray beard, regular more oval ears, straigther brows and a light spot quite on the midline of the head.

    MF7Fem05 (face form hard to see as she has food in her mouth):

    enter image description here

    MF7Fem14:

    enter image description here

    Infant: I see clear similarities between MF7Inf01 and MF7Inf10: round brows, dark face mask with light mouth area. A downward bend in the left ear. MF7Inf05 has in principle all this features itself, but the head hair (on the sides) seems to be more fluffy and the mouth area more triangular shaped. But in the other sequences of MF7Inf01 and MF7Inf10, the infant is carried and the shoulders are higher and might cover these traits a bit. I am not sure about is, but see similarities. The color differences are in my opinion due to different amount of sunlight.

    MF7Inf01:

    enter image description here

    MF7Inf10:

    enter image description here

    MF7Inf05:

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Hi @AnLand

    I will add MF7Inf05 to the possible matches list, together with Inf01 and Inf10.
    I will put Fem01, Fem05 and Fem14 together too.

    I agree with you that Inf01 is very, very similar to inf10...about inf05, maybe the triangular shape of its muzzle is due to the fact that it´s chewing something or has some food in its mouth?

    Any more suggestions???!!!!!

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    Oh wow @AnLand, what a collection!

    Watching the videos of the infants, both ears have the backwards bend, on all three infants. All of them also have a rather fuzzy part to the hair down the middle of the head, and there's a dark vertical line separating the two brown arches.. .Also, the images of Inf01 and inf05 are detailed enough to see some details of the face, in both images the infant has more puffy/wrinkled skin under his/her right eye, and a small whitish bump on the left brow ridge. I can't see these two details on Inf10, but the video quality is poorer.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ...it would mean then that all the three females are the same too. They (Fem05 and Fem14) are quite alike actually.

    Let´s wait for more opinions.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Hey @AnLand and @Quia,

    nobody seems to feel like checking it 😉 . I would say, let´s wait until tomorrow and if no one disapproves it, we can consider them a match and you can start proposing names...

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    Sorry for not speaking up sooner. I've been looking at these, but haven't felt confident enough to agree or disagree across the board. Overall, the only doubts I have could probably be explained away by lighting, camera angles, and the passage of time. So, here are my not very helpful thoughts.

    The females are convincingly similar. Only 2 weak points of hesitation:

    • I don't see the lump behind the right ear of Fem14, but there isn't a clear view and who knows what the lump is or when it first appeared.

    • Fem01 has a spot on her left hip that looks like either a scar or dirty/matted down fur. I can't see this on the others, and if it's just mud or something, then it doesn't matter.

    The infants look similar. Inf01 & Inf10 especially look very similar in the face. There do seem to be some differences, at least in my eyes.

    • Inf10 has a white tuft of fur on the rump that isn't visible on Inf01 and is just barely visible on Inf05. Based on the timestamps in the spreadsheet, these are all within a month of each other. Not sure if that's enough time to show a difference in the amount of white fur, assuming it's not a lighting/angle issue.

    • Inf05's left ear seems to have more of a curl at the top. Inf10 has some curl, and Inf01's ear appears more thin and flat.

    • Inf05's face looks very different, though I suppose that could be due to the food and lighting. The brow just seems bumpier than in the other 2, and the eyes more puffy underneath.

    Anyway, I don't think any of this clearly rules out any one individual from being a match to the others. At this point, if we're comfortable going off a few assumptions, I think it's probably a safe bet until/unless some new footage appears.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Hi @ksigler,

    thanks very much for your contribution 😉

    • about the spot on Fem01 left hip, it´s just the light; look at the second 13 of her first video: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00044h7

    • Infants white tuft: I think you are right, Inf01 shows no white tuft...one month shouldn´t be enough to show differences.

    • I think the difference in Inf05´s face expresion is due to food in his/her mouth...

    you have good eyes!!!!!!

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Oh, good catch with the sunlight on Fem01's hip. I totally missed that. So, considering the white fur tufts on the infants, where does that leave us with the matches?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    My guess is that Fem05/Inf05 and Fem14/Inf10 are a match...

    but your tuft point makes me doubting about Fem01/Inf01

    let´s see what the others say.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Maybe someone has something to say about this matching proposal? Nice clear face shots and in my opinion it is very interesting to see how the appearance of the features in MF7Male07 is changing between color and black and white mode in the cameras. This will help us to compare this features in other sequences.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I think MF7Male07 and MF7Male13 are a match 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Great, so now what?

    PS: If you merge the discussions like this, the postings will order in a timely manner and I am not sure, we will know what has been said about what later ...

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    you are right, @AnLand, merging your post about the males made it confusing...sorry 😦

    ok, if nobody disagrees, we have two matches here:

    MF7Fem05/Inf05 + MF7Fem14/Inf10 (I would leave Fem01/Inf01 out for the moment)

    MF7Male07 + MF7Male13

    @AnLand, you could propose a name for your male, and perhaps @ksigler could do it for the female+infant. Actually it was @AnLand who proposed the MF7Fem05/Inf05 + MF7Fem14/Inf10 match, but I guess it would be fair if we give @ksigler the fun part as she has been very much engaged with this proposal too...agree?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Agreed. Cool!

    So I propose Morrison for MF7Male07 and 13 - wild at heart with puppy eyes!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ...Morrison fits him 😉

    Thanks!! this is the best part...I am so happy!!!!

    Posted

  • DZM by DZM admin

    Every time a bell rings, another chimp gets his name! 😃

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    Wow, thank you for sharing the naming privileges on these! I wasn't expecting that. 😄

    So... how about Mara for the female and Rocco for the infant? Sound okay?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Great, love it. Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Mara and Rocco are really cool names!!!!! 😉

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Hey guys, I would love to solve this problem:

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00004ep

    In my opinion, Juv01, Juv02, Juv11 and Juv13 could be a match, but I am not sure about Juv05...

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ...and what about `Scarface´? (Male01, Male06, Male15 and Male22)

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00006nj

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00006zd

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    sorry...one more thing,

    I think I dare assure that Male08, Male03, Male11 and Male21 are a match:

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00005co

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00006zd

    if no one disagrees, I think it would be @Quia´s turn to propose a name for this impresive male.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Not sure whether it helps to alert additionally to one of the matches, I feel strongly about ... but: MF7Fem02/Inf02 / MF7Fem16/Inf12

    Thread here: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00005yt

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    RE: scarface - I definitely agree with Male01, Male06 & Male22. They are all older, very bald, have a horizontal scar above the left eye, and white spots on the face, with a prominent white mark on the left side of the nose.

    I think Male15 has too much hair on top of his head, and just looks younger. And there's something imperfect about the brow, but I can't see a scar, nor the white spots like on the others. Maybe I'm missing something on this one...

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    Re 'Scarface' (I like that nickname! 😃)

    I think we have two different chimps here.

    MF7Male15 has a full head of hair

    MF7Male01, MF7Male06 MF7Male22 are quite bald. I think these three are a good match, the differences I'm seeing seem to be from the lighting and the odd angles.

    edit and I didn't even see ksigler's post there. Agreed on all counts. 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I agree, MF7Male15 has no baldness as all. For the other three, I see a match. The ears of MF7Male22 are not as good visible as in the other ones. But they are there and I cannot see any damages in them.

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    For 03/08/11/21... Some good comparison videos for each.

    Male 03 ACP0004tp3

    Male 08 ACP0003rkt

    Male 11 ACP00042n7

    Male 21 ACP0004pfv

    I think Male 03 is a different chimp, he has a much wider brow, the other three have very narrow features with a comparatively long face, where as his face looks more square and boxy. 08/11/21 seem a good match to me.

    When we agree on which of them is a match, how's Achenar sound?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Quia's comment.

    Hi @Quia, I agree that MF7Male03 appears to be a bit different. All the marks we see in the others are basically there and we never really see the front view of his face directly as in all the others. He is also the only one in an open space where the light is differently, so that the brow seems to be wider.

    But yes, if we could leave him out of the match for now it would probably be better. I cannot find a convincing sign for it, but my feeling says it's not him.

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    ACP0003pdy

    Another video of the MF7Male01 sequence was found. I can't recall if we saw both ears before this, but this video has a clear look at both. Intact, and rather closely set to the head, which matches well with what we can see of 06 and 22.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Good job!!!!

    ok... @AnLand, I need two names for Fem02/In02 and Fem16/Inf12..

    @ksigler, would you like to propose a name for Male01, Male06 and Male22 (Scarface)?

    and @Quia, Achenar sounds great to me 😉

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    and if you all agree, I think Juv01, 02, 11 and 13 are a match, but will leave Juv05 out for the moment...

    agree?

    and I guess it is now @lauraklynn ´s turn to propose a name, as she was the one starting the discussion.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Names for MF7Fem02/MF7Fem16: Erika and MF7Inf02/MF7Inf12: Nao. Thanks!

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I propose the name Andrew for Male01/Male06/Male22. Thank you.

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I'm still not sure about Juv01/02/11/13. No disagreement, just can't say for sure from my screen. :-\

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ok @ksigler, it´s very difficult to be 100% sure of a match (I tend to be very meticulous too 😉 ) Just let me ask for more opinions...

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Erika, Nao and Andrew...love it!!!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP0003t12 very agitated scene 😃
    I think #MF7Juv12 and MF7Juv15 are a match. Same scene, probably same time (can't see all the numbers). But with 15 is also another one in the back just like with 12.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Hi @Boleyn, you are probably right that this is the same juvenile (although there is a second one around!), but as this is the same scene, it is not really a "match". Maybe @NuriaM could look into the whole scene again. We now know that the male (lacking his right ear) is always the same and so, maybe the juvenile is too. Would reduce our list.

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Today, my eyes/screen/gut say that Juv11=Juv13. Is it possible that Juv01 & Juv02 are a separate match, making it two different chimps among the four IDs? Or do we have enough evidence linking them all together as one chimp?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hey @Boleyn and @AnLand,

    I have been checking the list again, and I think that you are right, they are the same juvenile (no match though, sorry 😦 ).
    I will merge both (Juv12 and Juv15) in one (Juv12), which eases our list...thanks!!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Hi @ksigler,

    so, the situation now with those juveniles would be:

    MF7Juv01

    MF7Juv02

    MF7Juv05

    MF7Juv11+MF7Juv13=match

    to be honest, the more I look at them, the more doubts I have... 😦

    now I think that Juv01, Juv02, Juv05 and Juv13 might be the same chimp (same video sequence?)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    anyway, we already talked about this possibility here:

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00004ep

    @Quia made a nice image collection...

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I kept mostly out of this discussion because I cannot find any reliable marks to distinquish them. MF7Juv11 (that would be the match) looks like the others whether they are four different individuals or just one. I really cannot decide, but Juv11 certainly fits in ...

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    no problem if match or not. the main issue here is to identify them, right? 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    It might be the light (black and white footage) and they are not very close to the camera, but what do you think about a matching MF7Juv12 with MF7Juv17? Large face with very light mouth area. Round brows, lighter eye area, but darker at the sides, which somehow makes the face looks narrower and longer. Right eat a bit pointy at top. Body size and rounder belly fits. She(?) is both times seen with a female who has a very small infant. (Although in the MF7Juv12 scene there is a second juvenile.)

    MF7Juv17

    enter image description here

    MF7Juv12 (and formerly also MF7Juv15)

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @NuriaM: Did you see that last matching proposal (yes, by me) here. I guess, we should not use this thread for new discussions anymore. It gets confusing ...

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    @AnLand: you are right, this board was intended to gather comments and suggestions on the possible matches list. If we suggest new matches we should start a new discussion, otherwise it gets too messy.

    I changed the board´s name...maby it is clearer now.

    Thank you for your proposal: MF7Juv12+MF7Juv17

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hey guys!

    in case someone still feels like having a look at Muddy Frost 7 possible matches list, I had a short brainstorm on it:

    FAMILIES

    • MF7Fem07 - MF7Fem18: I see a small white spot on Fem18 ´s right side of the mouth which I don´t see in Fem07...
      one one

    • MF7Fem04/Inf04 / MF7Fem06/Zelda / MF7Fem22/Zelda / MF7Fem10/Inf08: this one I must admit that I am completely lost. This case will need a special attention down the road 😃

    • MF7Fem25 / MF7Fem26: I think these are good candidates for a match 😃. Very similar greyness on their faces, same body complexion.
      one one

    • MF7Fem19/Inf22 / MF7Fem32/Inf21: the most obvious similarity for me is the white spot on the infant´s left knee. The left ears of the females look a bit bent at the top. Good candidates too.

    one one

    • MF7Fem13 / MF7Fem34: both´s left ear is rectangular. But still Fem34 goes by to fast. 50% sure of it.
      one one

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    I am not sure about Fem07 and Fem18, the sunlight in that video is really unfortunate, overexposing the features we'd most like to see!

    For the rest, I definitely see the similarities you've pointed out, and can't find any points they're not matched on. I think that MF7Fem25 / MF7Fem26 is the best match of the bunch, she's really an unusually blocky lady!

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    Like Quia, I agree with all of these with the exception of Fem07 & Fem18. That one just doesn't feel right for some reason. But I do feel pretty confident about the others.

    This includes Zelda & her mother. I think there are a few tough spots, though. Fem04 & Inf04 are harder to see because of the distance, but I don't see anything that doesn't match. Fem22 is also hard to see due to the lack of color, but other than her large belly (which could be a temporary feature), I also don't see anything that doesn't match. So, I agree with these also.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I agree with @Quia and @ksigler. Although, in my opinion we should take out MF7Fem04 and MF7Inf04 from the match. There is hardly anything seen. The only way I would match them here too is when you are saying that it is highly unlikely that there is another bald female with an infant that size/age within this community. Because this is what I can actually see. If that is the case - fine. If not, I would leave them out. The rest of this match is a bit complicated. But I see a certain match of MF7Fem06 with MF7Fem10 and Zelda (from the video on her own) with MF7Inf08. MF7Fem22 is somehow circumstantial, but we went with Zelda as the kid with MF7Fem22 (matching from a distance), so that seems logical to me.

    (I am actually most interested in the match of MF7Fem13 as she is my favorite chimp here overall. It was really hard to find a match to her and I got lucky in the end. And yes, I would like to name her ... Just saying. 😃 )

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Great!!

    we have three matches here then... 😃

    I will leave Fem07 and Fem18 apart, it´s too tricky.

    MF7Fem04/Inf04 / MF7Fem06/Zelda / MF7Fem22/Zelda / MF7Fem10/Inf08 are too controversial to be a reliable match, so I will leave them too 😦

    But:

    Fem25/Fem26 deserve a name ( @Quia, would you...? 😃 ).

    Fem19/Inf22 - Fem32/Inf21: @ksigler, will you give us two names for them?

    Fem13/Fem34 : @AnLand, it´s all yours 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Thank you, @NuriaM - I am very happy that the lady with the leopard finally gets a name: Linda, just like this. 😃

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    Hooray for three more named chimps! I'd like to call her Anita.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Quia's comment.

    Anita is great! Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    very nice!!

    Linda means beautiful and cute in Spanish 😃

    Anita is very beautiful and cute too, thanks!!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    another brainstorm here 😃

    I have been watching the juveniles possible matches list again:

    • MF7Juv16 / MF7Juv18 / MF7Juv26 / Jane : I am absolutely not sure about these guys. Actually they all look very alike, but the images are not the best (MF7Juv18 goes too fast, MF7Juv26 is too far away, and Jane has a small white spot on the head which I can´t find in the others).
    • MF7Juv20 / MF7Juv23 : these are good candidates! same wide nostrils, their mouths have same shape too:

    one one

    • MF7Juv12 / MF7Juv17 : these black and white videos are a nightmare to me. I am absolutely no confident about these two, still the hair direction in their right arms makes me doubt:

    one one

    • MF7Juv10 / MF7Juv14 : I see two small patches on MF7Juv14 ´s head which are missing in MF7Juv10:

    one one

    sorry, but I would only match MF7Juv20 / MF7Juv23. The others are too confusing and I wouldn´t dare 😕

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Thanks for the opportunity to name more chimps, especially this fine young mother and her adorable little one with the white knee! For them, I propose Betsy (for Fem19/32) and Peanut (for Inf22/21).

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I love Peanut! It sounds perfect!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    love it!!!!!

    thanks 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ...and this is the last time I am bothering you with this, promise!!

    males brainstorm 😃

    • MF7Male18 / MF7Male19: these two guys have sort of a depigmentation under their eyes (in Male19 it is better seen in the video). Their build is very similar too:

    one one

    • MF7Male15 / MF7Male24: the upper lip seems to hang down a bit in both guys. Their brows look very alike too. They could be good candidates, although Male24 appears too shortly and fastly... 😕 :

    one one

    • MF7Male09 / MF7Male26: both have very similar patches on their left inside arm which might not be very significant in case of black and white videos, but their faces and complexions look alike too:

    one one

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I agree with MF7Male18/MF7Male19 -- it does looks lighter right under their eyes. And I also agree with MF7Male09/MF7Male26 (same as when I first suggested it 3 weeks ago ;P)

    MF7Male24 is too quick for me to be comfortable matching.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Males:

    I am ok with all matches, even the fast one, but can understand that you don't want to match the latter one. I will - during the weekend - again look into MF7Male28. Here I still have some ideas, but I cannot manage before.

    Juveniles:

    I am absolutely ok if we do not do anything with the big match MF7Juv16 / MF7Juv18 / MF7Juv26 / Jane. MF7Male18 moves too fast and I think meanwhile that Jane is really a bit bigger and older.

    I would like to look into the MF7Juv16 and MF7Juv28 (and maybe MF7Juv29) match. Here I still see something.

    For the other ones mentioned above, I am still convinced by them (all of them).

    I do not have anything to add for MF7Juv12 and MF7Juv17. We already discussed the arm-pit question.

    I would like to look again - during the weekend - into MF7Juv10 / MF7Juv14. I see here convincing similarities and the circumstantial evidence of a) the exact same situation and b) the brownish shine on the gray back of the carrying female (that I did not see in another female, and male for the fact) suggest to me that it is worth the time to look into that.

    MF7Juv20 /MF7Juv23 - is a cutie and as I found both sequences and proposed the match, I suggest to name him/her right away: Arevig (after the daugther of my best friend). I guess, it sounds for most people neutral enough, but it is a girl's name.

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I agree completely with MF7Male18 & MF7Male19 and with MF7Male9 & MF7Male26.

    For MF7Male15 & MF7Male24... Male15 has a cool looking mouth. 😃 I can't really make it out in Male24, though. Also, Male15 looks bigger, though that might be an illusion. The brows do look similar. I'd like to see this match, but I'm not sure, sorry.

    As a side note, I see similarities between the first chimp in ACP0004ghc (Male24's clip) and MF7Male03. Not much of a facial view, though.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Yes, we discussed the nice back view for both in the beehive post, remember?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    I looked again in the MF7Juv10 / MF7Juv14 match. I cannot add much to that, what I said before. I see the same facial feature for the juvenile including the white midline on her head. The other white spots are not seen - and I would not expect this from this distance. So, they might or might not be there. The right ear has the same slight bent. The mother has a darker streak of fur in the gray back at the right sight that is seen in both and swelling would fit. With MF7Juv14, she is not swelled in ACP0004505. With MF7Juv10 (roughly 5 weeks before) she still has a small swelling, but it is already going back, I think. ACP0004tfb. Both traits are seen in the linked videos. So, yes, I am feeling strong about that match. The not seen white spots of MF7Juv14 cannot be seen from this distance and don't make me hesitate about the match. 😉

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Hi guys!

    thanks for this... @AnLand, Arevig is a beautiful name, thanks!

    about MF7Male18 - MF7Male19, maybe @LJE wants to name him??

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi @NuriaM, I guess, you are not going with my arguments about MF7Juv10 / MF7Juv14 match. I just want to check whether it is only the white spots or whether you have other reasons to doubt that match. Only to get whether I missed something else. Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hi @AnLand,

    hmmm...I don´t know, I am not completely confident about this match. You are right when you say that their face structure looks limilar and even the females do so (you are right about the swellings), but MF7Juv10 is too distant and partially covered by the vegetation. MF7Juv10 face looks slightly darker to me (but here it might be the light).

    Are you 100% sure about this? Does anyone else agree with @AnLand??

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Maybe @ksigler could look into that. She has a very good eye for details.

    I am confident about this match. This is what I am seeing and I am happy that I got it right with the swelling. I do see your point about the white spots, but there is no way to see them in this distance. And I cannot find anything that comes up against the match. That's why I asked, whether you see something else I did not pay attention to or whether you are just not sure. I am sure, but it's your call. Let's wait a bit whether @ksigler has an opinion here. (Or somebody else, of course.)

    Posted

  • LJE by LJE in response to NuriaM's comment.

    What an honor! I propose Yoshi.
    The translations from Japanese that I've found online say it means good or splendid.

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    I think I agree with @AnLand about MFJuv10 & MFJuv14. The main point of contention seems to be the white spots on Juv14, however, I believe at least a couple of those to be debris of some sort on top of the hair. S/He has a large piece on the back, on the back of the head, and also possibly the neck.

    The facial coloration looks the same to me.. very peachy, with lighter muzzle and brow. Small dark "dimples" on each cheek. Can't see if there is white hair on the chin of Juv10 due to the plants. The top of the head for both has the clear white center part in the hair. Both have very thin hair covering the chest and stomach, dark everywhere else, though maybe still a touch of white on the rump. Plus, as a supporting point, both seem to be very confident and eager to begin tool use after being dropped off by the mother. I don't remember seeing other MF juveniles around this age that act like that. And, the mothers look very similar from the back view, also.

    Full disclosure, after comparing these to other juveniles on the prospective list, I saw a few others that also have this appearance. That doesn't mean that this isn't a match, and I'd need to spend more time looking at the other juveniles. Just wanted to be upfront that I'm not seeing an exclusive, "no chance of being another juvenile" match. But based on the above, I do agree about these 2 at least. Hope that helps some.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    thanks a lot, it does help!!

    if you then agree, @AnLand, you know what´s next 😉

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to LJE's comment.

    Hi @LJE,

    I like Yoshi very much...thanks!!!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    @ksigler and @NuriaM: thank you very much that you took the time to look into this once more. I appreciate this.

    I would like to name this juvenile Holly. Thank you!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    So did we all agree on MFMale09/MFMale26 being a match?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    hi @jwidness,

    sorry I didn´t answer before, but I have been on vacation 😃

    Now I am happily back to reallity 😉.

    I myself agree with that match (MF7Male09/MF7Male26)...name?

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Hope you had a nice vacation! I would like to propose Altair for this male : )

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    Cool, the "flying eagle" and a bird as Vega - love that name!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    cool name 😃

    Thanks!!

    Posted