Chimp & See Talk

Juvenile or young adult (Fry), plus CDMale01a and CDMale04a

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Round brows, dark eye area, light mouth area, both ears present and undamaged. Very small gray beard. Right ear with backward bent. I think, male, but not sure. Young adult, lean and still small. ACP0004vbh

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP0004vbi and ACP0004vbj followed by two other males and a female carrying an older infant. Vocalization.

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    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    What do you think about a match for the young adult to CDMale02 ( ACP0005eiw and ACP0005eix for ease of comparison)? Similarities: size/build, darker eye area, lighter muzzle, slight backwards ear, pale hands and feet, short/smooth hair, line down the center of the forehead, somewhat curved brows, hint of a beard.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I'm also considering whether I think the big fellow from ACP0004vbi and ACP0004vbj could be a match to CDMale01 ( ACP0005acj/k/l/m). Pros: robust, round head with flat top and thinning hair on top, somewhat curved brows, bit of a point to the top of the left ear, dark facial skin with lighter beard, grey lower back and legs. Cons: this new guy seems to have wrinkles under his left eye that I don't see in Male01 (too far away?), new guy doesn't seem to have pale lips (maybe because his mouth is closed tightly?).

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Sigh, there are clearly at least two big males with blocky faces in this community -- chimps #5 and #10 in ACP0004zr0 and ACP0004zr1 (found by @AnLand).

    Fifth chimp:

    enter image description here

    Tenth chimp (I never thought I'd be writing that!):

    enter image description here

    To be honest, I think they look fairly similar -- I'm telling myself they must be brothers 😉

    I think if I had to match, I'd guess the fifth male here matches CDMale01, and the 10th male here matches the male from ACP0004vbj, but I think I need to ponder a while longer...

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Yeah, party size is quite big at Crimson Dew. We see a lot of bigger traveling parties (> 5 chimps without counting carried infants), considerably more than at other sites so far. Males and females together. My guess is that they are traveling to bigger food areas (fruit or nut trees). That would explain why we - after quite a lot videos now - did not see feeding or a single tool use scene. (Another explanation for bigger party size, according to the literature, is a small community, I think. But I've seen quite some males and families, so I don't know how likely it is that we are seeing them often all together. I still do not have a feeling for the faces of these new chimps for matching. With this discussion about missing limbs, maybe protection is a factor, too. If that snaring impression is true.)

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I believe this is our young lad again:

    enter image description here

    Small adult male, pale face, ears, and hands, slightly curved brow, short/thin body hair, spot in the center of his forehead, small, high testicles.

    For easy comparison, I'm proposing a match for all these young males:

    ACP0005fh2 and ACP0005fh3 (this video)

    ACP0005eer and ACP0005ees (hard to see, somewhat questionable)

    ACP0005eiw and ACP0005eix (CDMale02)

    ACP0004vbh (top of this thread)

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I believe the second chimp in ACP00054fo is also our lad. (Also in ACP00054fp)

    Edit: Not confident about this one, but I'm considering ACP00054h4 and ACP00054h5 for this match too...

    2nd edit: this isn't good enough for a match, but I think the male ahead of Dodge in ACP0005czx is also CDMale02

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Adding three more to my match suggestion (found by @AnLand):

    ACP00054u7, ACP00054u8, and ACP00054u9 (the last male in the line of three)

    edit: adding two more videos (found by @Snorticus): ACP0005e61 and ACP0005e62

    2nd edit: adding another video (found by @Snorticus): ACP0005ece (first chimp)

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hi AnLand,
    don't you think that the first chimp in this video ACP0004vbi is a female?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    Hi jwidness,
    I need to think more about your proposal of match with CDMale02. I can see the similarities you say, but I don't feel 100% sure about that, and I can not find the signal that tell me that they are the same... Sorry. Anyway I am going to put these chimps in the prospective list, and if after we feel more sure about this match, we can do it anyway.
    Thanks a lot!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    About the Males, I will put these two new chimps as CDMale01a? (the 5th, which you propose that could be CDMale01), and CDMale04a? (the 10th, which you propose that could be CDMale04, the male from ACP0004vbj), and we can think a little more about them.
    Thanks a lot

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Hi @PauDG, I looked for sex determination but could not see anything in either direction. So I just thought, well looks like a young guy. I am fine with female. Why would you rather say female? (I am just interested.)

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hi AnLand,
    I seem to see a swelling in the second 0:10... what do you think? Thanks a lot! 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Yes, I agree. Sorry, did not see this earlier. Is female.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    No worries!!!

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    My comments on all the young men gathered here. Old guys coming later, probably not in this thread. 😉

    Grouped into very tentative 'possible differences'

    Pinker face

    ACP0004vbh

    Pink juvenile face, part line that is only visisble when the light catches it just right, quite slight build. Fold in left ear. Rather delicate browline, with a small dip.

    ACP00054fo ACP00054fp

    Long distance, but the face and white rear end are very convincing.

    Grayer face

    ACP0005eiw

    This is CDMale02, I see the same brow/hairline, and the same folded left ear. The face colour looks different, but different light?

    ACP00054u7 ACP00054u8 ACP00054u9

    This guy insists on hiding behind trees. His face colours look more gray like CDMale02, I'm still not convinced it isn't just the light.

    BW, can't tell face colour!

    ACP0005fh2 ACP0005fh3

    BW and not the best videos, but I do see the similarity. I also see, insides of the elbows are very bright in the BW, and we see him from behind, he's quite young and still has quite a large white spot on his rear.

    ACP0005ece

    BW, matching on brow/face colours, folded left ear, and bright inner elbows.

    ACP0005eer ACP0005ees

    These clips aren't clear enough for me to be confident matching.

    ACP00054h4 ACP00054h5

    Too far and through the trees for me to be confident.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Thanks for those comments @Quia! I'm updating and reorganizing my match proposal with pictures and temp names (this is just repeat information, but hopefully laid out better and easier to follow):

    I believe we only have one young adult male here. He's on the border between small adult and large juvenile, with a darker eye area, lighter muzzle, slight backwards ear, pale hands, feet, and ears, short/smooth/thin body hair, especially on the inside of the elbows and the lower legs, line down the center of the forehead, somewhat curved brows, hint of a beard, small, high testicles.

    To start, here's CDMale02 from ACP0005eiw and ACP0005eix:

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    Then CDJuv01 from ACP0004vbh:

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    Then CDJuv02 from ACP00054u7, ACP00054u8, and ACP00054u9 (the last male in the line of three)

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    Then CDJuv03 from ACP0005ece:

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    From ACP0005fh2 and ACP0005fh3:

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    From ACP0005eer and ACP0005ees:

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    From ACP00054fo and ACP00054fp:

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    From ACP00054h4 and ACP00054h5:

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    From ACP0005e61 and ACP0005e62:

    enter image description here

    I realize the quality isn't that great on a number of these, but I thought I'd include them anyway in case it helps anyone decide.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to Quia's comment.

    Hi Quia!

    I agree that ACP00054fo ACP00054fp is also CDJuv01 (ACP0004vbh), so we can do the match. But as you, I am not sure enough with the other proposal, because the images are not good enough to ID.

    We will keep trying!

    Which name do you propose to ACP00054fo /ACP00054fp /CDJuv01 (ACP0004vbh)?

    Thanks a lot!

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    Can we call him Fry? 😃 Here's hoping we can get more clear views of these young fellows!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Love the name Fry 😃

    I'm adding another one that I also think is this same young man (from ACP000537x, found by @AnLand):

    enter image description here

    (Sorry for the really terrible preview, the video isn't that bad)

    Small adult size, pale face, mostly straight brows, bald spot right in the center of the forehead.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,
    I also like the name Fry!
    and about this chimp, maybe is risky because he stop only one second, but I would say also that is Fry.
    Thanks guys!

    Posted