Chimp & See Talk

Pearl and Flocke. Distant, female with pale face, gray back

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    Not the best views, but she does give us a decent view of her face. ACP0005d87

    Also in ACP0005d86, and entering last in the company of a female with an infant on her belly, and another small juvenile. ACP0005d85

    She has some interesting markings, three distinct white/balding spots above her brow, a quite gray lower back, and a very pale mouth area and brows.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Do you think she might be the last female in ACP0004zr0 (found by @AnLand)?

    enter image description here

    The face coloration is the main similarity, but it looks like this new female is maybe also bald on top. The main issue for me is that this new one is carrying an infant and the female in ACP0005d85 is not. I can think of three explanations: the juvenile running ahead of her in ACP0005d85 is hers rather than the earlier female's, she lost her infant in the month between the two videos, or it's not a match.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I found a female that might match both mentioned here as she has a very unique face coloring. I am not sure whether it is a disease or just abnormal pigmentation. She is seen with an infant and once with another juvenile. ACP00054io, ACP00054td. In the first video mentioned here she is sniffing, I think. But there might be something with her eyes too, I don't know.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    The chimp that enters at the end of ACP00054td is actually an adult -- can be seen in ACP00054te. I'm very confident about the match of this pale faced lady in all these videos -- same coloration and same 3 bald spots. The only question is where is her infant in ACP0005d85? Is it the one running ahead?

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Goodness, I forgot that @Snorticus found her and described her in this discussion: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP0000981 of videos ACP0005cyp, ACP0005cyq, ACP0005cyr

    Edit: and seems to be the same lady/infant in http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP000096y, video ACP0005ct5

    Posted

  • Quia by Quia moderator

    I wonder if she has some kind of infection? Her face really doesn't look so good in ACP00054io, but in later videos it seems to clear up a bit.

    We have a LOT of sightings here, over a time period of 10 months! I hope I haven't missed any of them here?

    ACP00054io 4/10/2013 13:12:07

    ACP00054td 10/7/2013 14:22:05

    ACP0005cyp 12/4/2013 10:39:25

    ACP0005cyq

    ACP0005cyr

    ACP0005ct5 12/30/2013 17:35:30

    ACP0004zr0 1/18/2014 17:45:32

    ACP0005d85 2/14/2014 14:15:41

    ACP0005d86

    ACP0005d87

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I believe this is her again: ACP00054fq and ACP00054fr

    Edit: and again, having a quiet rest with her adorable infant ACP00054gg, ACP00054gh, ACP00054gi, ACP00054gj

    2nd edit: I think she's also the far adult in ACP0005d0g (edit to 2nd edit: if she's the far female in this one, then she's also the last chimp in ACP0005d0f

    3rd edit: Pretty sure she's also the first female in ACP0005a95 (with a great view of her infant)

    4th edit: she's in ACP0005d9m too

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Here again a good video showing her face. Looks not nice. ACP00054zj

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    In my opinion, the face of the infant looks also slightly irregular. Best seen here ACP00054io (but light and view not the best).

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I'd also been thinking about whether I think the infant's face looks odd (and I agree ACP00054io is the most convincing clip), but I hadn't decided.

    She's also in the next clip following this latest one you found (but not with good views):

    ACP00054zk

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Copying @Quia's post and updating it (we now have 13 months and 13 sightings!):

    ACP00054fq 3/19/2013 16:34:20

    ACP00054fr

    ACP00054io 4/10/2013 13:12:07

    ACP00054gg 5/20/2013 10:27:06

    ACP00054gh

    ACP00054gi

    ACP00054gj

    ACP0005a95 (first female) 6/7/2013 10:16:26

    ACP0005ece 6/10/2013 17:14:25

    ACP00054td 10/7/2013 14:22:05

    ACP0005d0f (last chimp) 11/22/2013 17:00:24

    ACP0005d0g

    ACP0005cyp 12/4/2013 10:39:25

    ACP0005cyq

    ACP0005cyr

    ACP0005ct5 12/30/2013 17:35:30

    ACP0004zr0 1/18/2014 17:45:32

    ACP0005d85 2/14/2014 14:15:41

    ACP0005d86

    ACP0005d87

    ACP00054zj 3/27/2014 13:17:11

    ACP00054zk

    ACP0005d9m 4/3/2014 16:15:26

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    HI everyone, When we first noticed this female I contacted our disease specialist at the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin (like the German CDC) and this is what he said:

    Hi Mimi,

    Well.. it is hard to say from the image but it does not look like a
    disease that affects the chimp badly (which is confirmed by the second
    observation..). It could even be a pigment problem as you see it in
    people sometimes..

    BUT: it will be important that they check all the photos to see if
    further cases are popping up..

    So I have now sent all your amazing work to him and maybe he will have some more insights, however considering that only 1 individual seems to be exhibiting the phenotype it does not seem to be something spreading in the community at least.

    Thanks for doing such an amazing job at compiling all these images!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to MimiA's comment.

    Thank you! Now I can better sleep tonight.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Thanks for the info!

    I think it looks like it's changing over time (like @Quia said), but I'm not sure it's improving.

    In April 2013:

    enter image description here

    Then in late March 2014, it looks like her face and ear especially are very swollen:

    enter image description here

    Hope she's ok πŸ˜•

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP00054io on 4/10/2013 her ear is a normal shape, her face a more normal shape, but her face is pigmented and she seems to possibly be having problems with her eyes.

    ACP00054zj on 3/27/2014 her ear is quite swollen and quite lumpy, her face looks also swollen and lumpy

    I think this infant's face may look a bit odd because there is something (food) stuffed behind the lips.

    This infant seems to have a white protrusion from the hind end. Is this something common in infant chimps or does it change or can it be used to ID this infant? It's quite apparent in several of the clips on the lists above.
    Easier to see in the clip ACP0005a95

    white protrusion on infant

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    Oh dear, I was hoping no one noticed my typo! ACP00054zj is actually from 2014, not 2013, sorry!

    And yes, all infants have that white tuft of hair on the bum -- isn't it cute πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to jwidness's comment.

    Okay, I fixed my 'copy & paste' date, whoops. That white tuft is cute, but I was hoping it was unusually prominent enough to ID this infant πŸ˜•

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP0005ece Second chimp in this clip carrying infant is also the white faced female. @jwidness is going to have to figure out that date cause I can't read it and maybe add it to the list?

    Some of the other chimps here are probably matches too as the chimps in this area seem to be found together in groups more than in Muddy Frost.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I have successfully avoided looking for crimson dew videos today (too busy matching and maintaining the spreadsheet!) and I don't think I'll start now πŸ˜‰

    I can make out a 3 at the end of the year, and a 0 for the first digit of the month, so I added it above as sometime before October 2013. I'll put it on the to-do list for some other time πŸ˜ƒ

    (Great video by the way -- six chimps!)

    Edit: updated with the date -- June 2013 πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to jwidness's comment.

    Oh later, yes, I didn't mean right away! πŸ˜ƒ I am calling it a day after some great finds between all of us and so many new things to think about! These chimps seem quite different than the Muddy Water chimps, but maybe just because i'm paying more attention.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    Thanks jwidness for the compilation of the videos.
    Someone has proposed a name already?
    Thanks all for the great team job!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    What about something like Snezhinka (it is Russian for snowflake). It's the first I can think of.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    That's a very interesting name -- how do you pronounce it??

    edit: I think that sounded not as positive as I wanted, sorry, I think it's a nice name πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    снСТи́нка - emphasis is on the second, the softer syllable (the zh is one letter in Russian as you see - it's was called the butterfly letter when I was at school)

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Oh gosh, it looks so fancy πŸ˜ƒ

    I studied a lot of foreign languages (including German, btw), but never anything that used the Cyrillic script. I'm afraid I'm having a very hard time figuring out how to say it out loud (hopefully my boyfriend doesn't think I'm going crazy!). πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    I love the cyrillic script and the name, I was thinking for awhile (since I saw her and what I called her "slow"infant which is probably not slow) maybe Pearl to keep it easy to remember (white) and easy to type for discussions?

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    (Side note: are we also looking for a name for her adorable infant?)

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    I have no ideas at all for that cutey!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    We can make it simple (for English speakers) and call her Snowflake and her infant Pearl. Or the other way round. Just a thought.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    What about Flocke? I'm just thinking that Snowflake is already the name of a very famous gorilla ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(gorilla)), but I don't feel that strongly either way

    edit: I suppose to be fair, Flocke is also a famous name, but for a polar bear....

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    Flocke would fit the infant (it is not the white, but the "hairy" cuddling part of the word. Like a round ball.)

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    So Pearl for the female, Flocke for her little one?

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I like it πŸ˜ƒ Maybe we wait for @Snorticus to approve as well?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to jwidness's comment.

    I like Flocke for the infant. Thank you @AnLand and @jwidness for going with Pearl for the white faced female. I have a special liking for her and also Dodge because they are both such unusual chimps and the first two chimps I ever looked at really closely. πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    If you felt a connection with her you should have said something! Personally, I didn't have any strong desire to name her (in fact Flocke was just a suggestion based on @AnLand's name -- if anyone would like something different I absolutely wouldn't mind), but I totally understand feeling like a chimp is special to you. Of course it's always fun to name chimps, but with a group effort like this (and much of Crimson Dew it seems), I would definitely be willing to have some give and take for situations where someone feels a special affinity for a chimp.

    For me, having spent the whole day copying and pasting and watching and rewatching, I like the two big boys I posted about at the bottom of http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP00009qv (who we will hopefully eventually get sorted out). While doing all that work, I made up stories about how they're brothers, CDMale01 being the older one, and the other is the younger one. The older one is the alpha male, and the other is his right-hand-man, the beta male. Ralph and Dodge like to display and drum because they're competing, but those two boys are so big and have such a tight bond that they won't be toppled. Maybe even Esme is their mom. Haha, I think I spent a little too long working on that post πŸ˜‰, but the point is I don't think we need to be super strict with naming. Hopefully everyone working on matching will get to name their favorites and we can all have a good time with this great set of chimps at Crimson Dew!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to jwidness's comment.

    I can see that you understand what I mean, and affinity is a very good way to put it. These two chimps really stayed on my mind once I found them and began really looking at them. When you watch and re-watch images many many times, some chimps just seem to capture your curiosity and interest more than others and stay with you when you leave off classifying. I have been fascinated by animals and their behavior all my life so this project is particularly satisfying and rewarding for me to work on.

    Posted

  • drobinso by drobinso

    Grrr! I'm still on Muddy Frost!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to drobinso's comment.

    You can find out how to navigate the URL here in the FAQ--- http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP0000007/discussions/DCP00001w2

    Reading up on all the discussions is the best way to learn how things work πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Pearl and Flocke, right? Thank you all!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I believe they're in this too: ACP0005cu5

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I think so but hard to be sure πŸ˜‰

    Posted