Chimp & See Talk

Adult female with small infant (and juvenile) - Gertrude

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Not the very best video quality, but: adult female with wide face, lighter lips, beard and I think a bald spot above the brows. Right ear present, no damage seen. Gray back. Quite robust. She carries a small infant on her belly an is seen with another juvenile. ACP0004zj5, ACP0004zj6, ACP0004zj7, ACP0004zj8

    enter image description here

    Juvenile (not too old) only seen from a distance

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I'm not really proposing a formal match since the quality isn't great, but I believe this is her again in ACP0004zxa (found by @Eswiniarski):

    enter image description here

    She's very robust, significant grey on the back, big wide face, white beard, bald in the middle of the forehead, looks exactly the same as the other female from the rear (not sure how to describe it -- her swelling looks very narrow and only a small strip of pink with mostly black, I included pictures), carrying small ventral infant.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Maybe we'll keep her in mind for a future match?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,
    the first one, ACP0004zj5, will be from now CDFem08,
    the other one, I also see the similarities, same shape, same age of the baby... let keep this as possible match, as CDFem08a.
    Thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I would like to add two things here. Both females seem to have a white mark on the back. There are fact two, one more in the middle and clearer (a bigger scar?) and one more left that is not well seen. I also noticed that her left ear seems to be much smaller (damaged, cut, just bent?) than the right one. It is not really well seen, but her left ear looks different. Both traits are seen in both females here.

    Also, she is seen in both instances with another juvenile. In the sequence found by @Eswiniarski it is hard to see, but she is constantly looking up at the hill behind her and in ACP0004zxd , when she decided to walk on, you see moving branches on the upper middle screen and you see somebody moving.

    This female with the joyful riding infant ACP0004zva has also the white back mark and might be the same. She has an infant of the right size and is joint in ACP0004zvc by a not too old juvenile as in the other scenes.

    Yes, much of the evidence is circumstantial, but I would at least keep them all close together.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,

    yes, I also think that we can do the math between CDFem08 and Fem08a (and also with ACP0004zva). The have exactly the same patron of gray in their backs, on top of the other features that made us think on a possible match here. Maybe is not very clear in the screenshots but look the videos also.

    one one one

    Great job team! @jwidness, @AnLand, do want you propose names??
    Thanks

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Great!

    @jwidness: Do we want to share? I can think of some really nice names. 😉 Whom do you want to name? Despite @PauDG will not like it as we do not have a good face shot, I feel we should name all three of them. They are so close! It would not feel right to leave the older kid out. What do you think?

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I'm happy to let you name them all -- or maybe @Boleyn would like to help? She (or he, I apologize that I don't know) hasn't yet named any CD chimps. To be honest, the only CD chimps I'm still interested in naming are the two big boys 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @jwidness: it is she 😉

    @Boleyn - you want to name someone from this family? We have an infant, a quite young juvenile (without a really nice face shot) and their mom.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you both. But...shouldn't the honour go to @Eswiniarski? If she/he cannot be reached, then I of course like to do it.
    LOL @jwidness, sorry, I don't know either if you're a she or a he?

    btw, the mom just looks like a Berta to me 😃 so sturdy and experienced and a little bit quaint 😃 But that's not the official proposal. I'm sure she deserves a nicer name!

    Posted

  • Eswiniarski by Eswiniarski

    Thank you for the honor. She does look like a pretty sturdy girl. I would like to name her Gertrude.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @Eswiniarski and @Boleyn, you seem to have the same opinion about her! Ok, then I will find the sweetest names for the youngsters to make up for your choice!

    Thank you!!!

    (@Boleyn, I will not choose Berta as that is a female name for me and we go better a bit neutral for youngsters as we don't know sex, ok?)

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Ok, so:

    Cali for the infant

    Jax for the juvenile

    from @Eswiniarski: Gertrude for their mom

    Love it!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I love how much fun we're having with the names 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    very nice names @AnLand and @Eswiniarski. Of course I wouldn't have named her Berta, it was a joke. Gertrude is a very fitting name for the mom I think. I mean she's called after a famous writer and art collector 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Oh, yes right! I did not think at Gertrude Stein. That's nice. (I had a more negative connection to that name. Sturdy, I mean that what it means to me, too. Like Berta. Haha.)

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Do you think this is them again: ACP000509i, ACP000509j, ACP000509k, ACP000509l (found by @AnLand)

    enter image description here

    She is carrying the infant dorsally, but it's very small for a dorsal infant, and there's another juvenile in the tree nearby. Her back and rear look like Gertrude to me.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Pretty sure this is her again in ACP0004xgv and ACP0004xgw.

    enter image description here

    Big female with wide face and white beard. Small ventral infant. Followed soon after by small juvenile.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    And here they are again in ACP00052it, ACP00052iu, ACP00052iv. Large female with big head and grey back carrying ventral infant, followed by a small juvenile.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    My take would be:

    ACP00052it, ACP00052iu, ACP00052iv -> yes, Getrude, Cali, and Jax. The face is her and I see the white mark on her back. I really love how attentive she is towards Jax. Constantly checking whether Jax is following. She/he is still a younger juvenile, so that might be necessary.

    ACP0004xgv and ACP0004xgw -> we did not see her face before in normal daylight, but I can see the wide brows and face. Back is not seen, besides it is gray and body build fits. Both kids are there. Yes, I think so.

    ACP000509i, ACP000509j, ACP000509k, ACP000509l -> I really love the scene, especially the later part when they all sitting together in the tree. Ages of infant and juvenile fit. But much more is not actually seen. The white mark on her back is not seen due to the dorsal infant. I am a little bit reluctant here (unfortunately, they are so sweet together!), also because a posting by @jwidness from yesterday that I cannot find anymore. There was a female with a ventral infant and the white mark on her gray back, followed by more than one juvenile (I think there were three, two younger ones, incl. maybe Jax, and an older one). Nothing really seen as they were traveling fast, but it means there are more juveniles (and probably their mothers) around. I would vote for keeping them as a suggested match in the spreadsheet and decide later after we sorted the moms and juveniles out a bit better. I am not sure how many we have here.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    See http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP00009zs?page=1&comment_id=55be6b12cc1b571275000768 for discussion of possible match between Gertrude and CDFem10.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Hm, I'm not sure which post with 3 little ones you're talking about or I'd try to help you find it again, sorry. I'm fine with writing the suggestion down to come back to later though 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I think I found this cute family again in ACP00058a5 and ACP00058a6:

    enter image description here

    Gertrude's face is unfortunately hard to see due to sunlight, but Cali is absolutely adorable! And Jax makes a stunning entrance in the second part:

    enter image description here

    There's also another female with dorsal infant that I really can't see much of 😕

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    Nice find. Her lips seems to be hanging a bit. The infant of the other one seems to be quite small as well. Could be a ventral infant just riding once in a while. The dark body suggests CDFem09 (etc.). Need to look into that more later.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,
    I agree that is this videos is Gertrude

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00052it

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00052iu

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00052iv

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00058a5

    http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/subjects/ACP00058a6

    But in others I am not sure, because we have always IDed Gertrude by her back, so now is difficult. I need to know better her face before. Thanks a lot

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    How do you feel about identifying Jax as her older infant in each video?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    we can call Jax to the juvenile who goes with her, but the point is that we won't be able to say it is Jax outside of this context, alone. And probably we won't find him/her without Gertrude, but that is the point when we ID chimp, we need to be able to know who they are, in different contexts.
    But we can put Jax with Gertrude, as I did with Cali.(and with all the babies)
    Thanks!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    As I was looking around at videos with moms/infants trying to figure things out, I saw this one: ACP00058bq, which I think is Gertrude (infant too small to be River, plus Jax enters from above).

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Yes, they are Gertrude, Cali, Jax and Dodge.
    Also you can see the gray back of Gertrude.

    good find!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    And the other one in the next video ACP00058br (is in my opinion carrying a ventral infant, so Ollie)?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    It could be, but we are still doubting about how many females with infant there are...

    Posted