Chimp & See Talk

Dodge - question about ranking

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I rely here to this video: ACP0005331, but have seen this before. Dodge seems to lead / guide the traveling party. Might it be that he has a higher ranking (despite its missing arm) than we assumed before?

    I don't attempt any matching here. I am pretty sure about Dodge, but I am really interested about the ranking question.

    Only a picture to have a picture.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Not to take over your thread, but my guesses for your wonderful set of chimps are: Dodge (like you said), Fry, either CDMale05 or CDMale06 (hard for me to say with this light, but I think CDMale05), Amy/River

    Nice find!

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  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    But it essentially means, I will not get an answer to my question ...

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  • Quia by Quia moderator

    Well, I certainly don't know enough about chimp social structures to answer 😃 The science team may chime in!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Sorry, I can move my comments to another thread! It was your video, so I didn't want to start a new thread for it! Maybe you'd like to start a thread for IDing this video and I'll delete my comments here and move them over there?

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  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hi, the order of the males does not tell you anything about rank as far as I know. There are certainly injured males with high ranks at other sites, so I don't think we can assume Dodge is low ranking just because he is injured either.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to MimiA's comment.

    Thanks, @MimiA, what would be sign for higher / lower ranking that we might encounter here? Or is this too subtle? We have seen quite some aggression here, but I am not sure whether this really have something to do with ranking (we did not see an aggression with a clear justification here at Crimson Dew as we had with stealing tool at Muddy Frost for instance).

    Also, we have seen the first time display scenes with drumming and everything (best scene here: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP00009pd and here: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP000090s). In the first one, we see later (some minutes later) some chimps. In the second one with Ralph nobody is seen. They are doing this display for other chimps, right? To assure some kind of power and show vitality and force, but there should be an "audience" around to see or at least to hear them. Is it only for members of there own community or possibly loud enough to be heard by others?

    Maybe someone has the time to explain a bit more. Together with my ranking question, involving especially the one-armed Dodge, that's very interesting.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.

    Agree with @AnLand-can you tell us more about ranking in chimp groups please?

    I was thinking about displays when chimps ( ACP0005a9y 1st Ralph clip @AnLand found) seem alone, too. The chimps seem to be very aware of the cameras, and I wondered if the lone displays might be a strategy to intimidate when they are confronted with the odd sound, shape, & smell of the multiple camera boxes that they encounter in these capture camera environments.

    But then in the triple drumming/display scene with Dodge http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP00009pd
    it seemed like he was "calling out" to chimps within hearing range, because a female seems to arrive fairly soon after the display.
    Scientist's thoughts?

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    Hi everyone - drumming is actually thought to be more about long distant communication than about being a display and showing off: http://anthropology.cornell.edu/faculty/upload/1998-Arcadi_Robert_Boesch__Drumming.pdf

    We place the cameras at the buttress trees because we know they use them for this purpose so I don't think they are drumming because of the presence of the cameras.

    Dominance hierarchies are determined by looking at the giver and recipient of greetings. All adult males are dominant to all females, so dominance hierarchies are determined for males and females separately.

    for example in females: http://www.eva.mpg.de/primat/staff/boesch/pdf/jour_prim_food_comp.pdf
    and http://jambo.africa.kyoto-u.ac.jp/kiroku/asm_normal/abstracts/pdf/32-1/32-1-2.pdf

    this is also interesting, since rank isn't the only factor that contributes to mating opportunities: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689943/
    http://www.eva.mpg.de/fileadmin/content_files/primatology/Molecular_Genetics_Laboratory/pdf/Langergraber_2013_BES_
    chimp_marriage.pdf

    some audio of the pant grunt submissive greeting (sorry i could not easily find a good example with video but I will try)
    http://gombechimpanzees.org/activities/vocal-communication/

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  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Thanks, @MimiA for this great information. I always hope that the information will come without additional reading requirements 😉 , but the papers are really interesting. Will need the weekend to really get thoroughly through.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Ok, I have another question concerning the vocalization. These are two scenes from Muddy Frost

    ACP00048kv: it is not loud enough for a pant-hoot and does not have any climax etc. It sound more like interaction in the background (chimps not seen). Also, the sitting male does not pay attention which he would for the pant-hoot? So it is also a pant-grunt?

    ACP00048kc: this sounds like a submissive pant-grunt (in the screaming version like the fourth example on the website you cited). So, it is not aggression as such as the female is approaching (greeting?) the (more dominant) male (for whatever reasons) and not that he attacks her?

    To connect that with the term greeting in my head is difficult, I have to admit.

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    For the first video, it could be that the climax comes later, it seems headed in that direction to me and is the start of a pant hoot. The chimps do not always pay attention to all the drama going on around them, so something is happening off camera and we can't say more than that.

    For the second video, I am not sure if I understand your question, but how you describe it, is more or less what i see too.

    Posted

  • akalan by akalan scientist in response to MimiA's comment.

    Just to add a few more details that might help...

    ACP00048kv: these sound like food grunts to me before the start of the pant hoot (sound like they are from different individuals), (I agree hard to tell from pant grunts unless you have a trained ear, but pg's are given quicker in succession and usually rise in intensity in their sequence). I hear/see nut cracking and the chimps naturally emit food grunts while feeding.

    and yes ACP00048kc female is screaming because she is uncertain of the situation, it is not a pant grunt per se but she is being submissive (presenting her back, going up to him, screaming in this manner)

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  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    Thanks @akalan!!! 😄

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  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Thank you both! I hope, it is not too annoying to ask after individual videos. It is just easier to understand. That description from you both was very helpful to clear things up in my head. I might come back later with more questions, will now go through my collection of vocalizations (and aggression scenes) to get a better picture.

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