Chimp & See Talk

Older(?) adult female resting -- CDFem11

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    She seems to be older, with quite some baldness, very deep eyes. The left ear is as not damaged as in Esme, I think, but seems to be slightly irregular. Not very robust. I am not sure. Did we see her before?

    enter image description here

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  • Quia by Quia moderator

    You forgot the ID number. 😃

    From the still image, I don't think we've seen her before, those eye sockets are very deep, I think I'd recognize that face.

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  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I believe it came from ACP00057e9 and ACP00057ea. Honestly, as she walks in and again as she walks off, her rear and her gait to me suggest Esme again. Sorry, I think the light is just playing tricks on her face 😕

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  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I thought about Esme, but I really cannot see the big damage in her ear here. There is something with the right ear of that female for sure, but I looked quite long - and now again - and it looks different.

    (Sorry for forgetting the videos ID, I was quite in a hurry yesterday.)

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  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    What about CDFem04? She is older, too, has very deep eye sockets and a bent in her right ear. Baldness pattern fits and she also has this scrubby fur. Because, I looked into the videos above again. I see at least much of a full ear ...

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  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    The image is not good enough to be sure about the ID. For now she will be CDFem11, but I don;t know if will be able to ID her with this video.

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  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I was wondering if we could revisit this older lady. I really think this is Esme -- the size/shape of her swelling, the greyness to her lower back, the lumpy shape of her back, her hunched over posture, the awkward gait, they all match. I also think you can see damage to her ear, it's just very difficult to make out and the light makes it seem different.

    Here are a couple other black and white videos of Esme to compare -- the ear damage is also difficult to see:

    ACP0005ecf

    enter image description here

    ACP0005d0g:

    enter image description here

    I also think that given what we have seen of Crimson Dew, it seems quite unlikely that a chimp who is clearly not camera shy would only be seen just this once, and Esme is the only reasonable match among the known/prospective chimps.

    It's ok if you don't agree with me, I just thought I'd try to convince you ; )

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  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP00057e9 Did you check all the dates? Is it possible she lost that part of her ear after this clip? Esme does have a prominent brow ridge which could make her eye sockets appear darker and deeper in the poor light and high contrast of this black and white clip.

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  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,

    Esme had already the ear damaged the 18/02/2013 ( ACP00054f3), and the 02/04/2014 ( ACP0004vb9), and this video from CDFem11 ( ACP00057e9) is the 11/05/2013.

    You are right that in ACP0005ecf and ACP0005d0g, the damage is not very visible, but in these videos she is passing and is more difficult to see, but CDFem11 ( ACP00057e9) is sitting and I can not see anything in her ear...

    What do you think, @jwidness?

    Thanks!

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  • jwidness by jwidness moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    I still think it looks like part of the ear is missing. The best preview I could find was this:

    enter image description here

    To me, it looks like most of the ear is there, but the outer rim along the upper part is gone. It looks like the same damage we see here, just from a different angle:

    enter image description here

    I think it's just the angle and light that makes the damage so hard to see. (For another comparison, see Dodge's complete ear in ACP000587j.) Anyway, even if the damage or absence of damage to the ear is not certain, there are other factors to think about.

    Who else could she be? If she is one of our other single ladies, that would mean Yeesha or CDFem04. Just the greyness of her back alone is enough to eliminate both of those as options. Another possibility is that she is an unmatched female. I already said I thought that was extremely unlikely given the videos of Crimson Dew. Leaving out the very shy 5th mom, no individual is seen in only 1 video (and I actually think the shy mom is in more than one video too). So if she matches someone, Esme is the only possibility. As I said before, I also think all the rest of her features match Esme -- the size/shape of her swelling, the greyness to her lower back, the lumpy shape of her back, her hunched over posture, the awkward gait, her "severe" and sort of manly facial features.

    I don't think you can change my mind, but I guess maybe I can't change yours either 😛

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  • Quia by Quia moderator

    I agree that CDFem11 looks most like Esme of all the females, and now that we've (probably) seen everyone at this site, I would agree to matching her to Esme, nobody looks remotely similar to me. The light in the video of CDFem11 is odd, making all her facial features look exaggerated.

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  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks @Quia for your opinion.

    @jwidness, I am almost convinced! hahah 😉

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