Chimp & See Talk

Pearl, Flocke, and Fry, with rear ID description

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    We were talking about whether Fry might be an older son of Pearl in this thread: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000k/discussions/DCP00009vn and I thought I'd follow up a bit with that here.

    First I'll say that it's possible (and not too difficult!) to reliably ID Pearl with Flocke from behind. Pearl has a bit of a bump on her rear that Flocke always uses for his/her right foot while riding.

    enter image description here

    Best seen here ( ACP00054zj), but also visible in these other clips: ACP0005a0a, ACP00050a2, ACP00054fq, ACP0005a95, ACP0005ece, ACP00054io, ACP00054td. I have not seen a single clip of Flocke riding dorsally in any other position.

    On the other hand, here is an image of another infant riding dorsally (it can't be Pearl/Flocke because they are up the hill in this image from ACP000509a):

    enter image description here

    The position is completely different. I have never seen another infant at Crimson Dew ride in the position that Flocke uses. Here are more clips of other mothers and infants for comparison: ACP0004vbj (Amy/River), ACP00050bx (unID'd, but not Pearl), ACP0004vb1 (infant too big to be Flocke, maybe Amy/River?), ACP000509i (infant too small, maybe Gertrude/Cali?), ACP0005331 (Amy/River). None of them ride in the position Flocke uses.

    With that said, we can now ID Pearl/Flocke in a few more scenes.

    Here they are in ACP000558l:

    enter image description here

    and in ACP0005ecy on the right:

    enter image description here

    They're also at the end of ACP0005e63, but no good preview.

    And finally now I can talk about the original idea behind the post. Does Fry associate with Pearl/Flocke often enough that he might be her son?

    Some of this will be a bit controversial because the quality on the clips isn't the best, but I believe Fry is ahead of Pearl/Flocke in the line of chimps in ACP0005098.

    I believe it's also him in this clip ACP00050a2 with Pearl/Flocke.

    This is Fry in ACP00054fp, and Pearl/Flocke arrive in ACP00054fq, 20 seconds after Fry leaves the frame.

    I believe this is Fry again in ACP00054h5, and Pearl/Flocke arrive less than a minute later in ACP00054gg. Fry also looks back in their direction when he pauses.

    In ACP00054u9 and ACP00054td, it's a little less clear -- she doesn't arrive until about 15 minutes after he leaves.

    Here they are all together in the clip I identified above: ACP000558l.

    Here is the clip that started this discussion: ACP000587y. Not only is he directly in front of her, he's playing with Flocke.

    I believe he's in this scene ACP0005e62, and Pearl/Flocke arrive about 30 seconds later in ACP0005e63.

    He is again directly ahead of her in ACP0005ece.

    Finally, I believe this is him in ACP0005ect, and Pearl/Flocke arrive less than a minute later in ACP0005ecy.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I was looking into that the whole day after our discussion and the paper you sent around. We have generally a big party size in Crimson Dew. And we can identify quite a lot of individuals. Mainly because Dodge, Esme, and Pearl are special. And they seem to stick together. I think, because the community is small and food is scarce (or poaching is spread, but I've seen worse. So, that might not be true.) Everything else is mostly guessing.

    Pearl, Flocke, and Fry are seen together. As are other individuals at Crimson Dew. I cannot see anything special with this. The majority of confirmed sequences (Fry, and: CDMale02, CDJuv02 and CDJuv03 - I agree to this match) are with other males, not with Pearl.

    In all the tagged videos of #Pearl, #Flocke, #River, and #Amy there is only the one scene ACP000587y with a direct interaction that might prove your point. With everything I read, it is something special. Adult and adolescent males are not so often associated with an infant. It happens. In the video ACP000587y, it is an interaction initiated by Flocke. Pearl seems to be ok with it and does not get overly stressed with the situation (as Fry is, recognizing the camera!). She is just taking Flocke from his playful (very brief) bout from Fry. This relaxed attitude and his younger age makes me think that he might be older sibling of Flocke. But only this! So, I am supporting this. But not from the number of times, they are seen together. I did not see any more interaction in the confirmed videos (and above).

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all
    about the first thing, the position that Pearl carries Flocke (or the position that Flocke is) i totally agree. That is very characteristic position, and it is true that we have seen only in them. Really great job! I will add few pictures of this in the known list and I will add a comment about this.

    About the relationship between Pearl, Flocke and Fry, as I said in other thread, we can not say that Fry is son of Pearl because they are together or because Fry plays with Flocke. There is no way to be sure about that, only with DNA. But it can help us to ID them if actually they go most of the time together.

    Posted