ACP0005e6h - Ralph, CDMale07- Mario

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Some of you have proposed that the male of ACP0005e6h is Ralph and I agree.

  But the face of the CDMale07 reminds me a lot to the face of the male in ACP0005e6h, but his back seems lighter than the Ralph's back...

  What do you think about this three males: Ralph, the male in ACP0005e6h and CDMale07?

  
  Ralph

  
  ACP0005e6h

  
  CDMale07

  Thanks a lot!

  Posted September 7, 2015 3:37 PM

• by jwidness moderator

  I definitely think Ralph is the one in ACP0005e6h -- dark face all over including lips, hourglass shape to his face, smaller head, darker back.

  I don't think CDMale07 is Ralph -- first (as you pointed out) his back is much lighter, but also his body is bigger, his head is bigger and his face is longer and more rectangular, his face is mostly dark, but his lips are pale, and he has a lot more baldness on top of his head. I still think he is Mario, compare:

  Mario from ACP0004zoc
  
  
  

  CDMale07 from ACP00057if
  
  
  

  Also, Mario/CDMale07 have a bit of a line in the facial skin near the right nostril, and mottled skin around the mouth, including a dark area just below the bottom lip (neither feature is present in Ralph). This is hard to see in ACP0004zoc, but is more visible in ACP00054u7:

  Mario
  
  

  Finally, CDMale07 is seen here with Amy, but Ralph has never been seen with Amy. There are many videos that I believe are Mario with Amy, including ACP0004zr0 where he's seen inspecting her -- I know behavior isn't the best to use for ID, but it does support my case a little bit. 😉

  Posted September 7, 2015 5:02 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I am actually also a bit hesitant. From the pictures I first somehow agreed. The features are similar, but my feeling after re-watching the videos says no. I think the nostrils are wider in CDMale07, the beard is not so white as Ralph's, the form of the face (Ralph has wider brows, but the face nevertheless looks more narrow) and certain marks on the muzzle that I cannot see in Ralph ...

  The camera perspective is difficult from below. He does not look considerably bigger than Amy. I always thought Mario as bigger ...

  I am not an expert here, but ACP0005e6h is Ralph, CDMale07 is not - in my opinion.

  (And as earlier stated: I don't agree with all of @jwidness matching proposals for Mario, but for CDMale07 I do.)

  Posted September 7, 2015 6:21 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Nice!
  Thank you very much for your opinions.

  So, if everyone agrees, I am going to merge CDMale07 with Mario, and to add ACP0005e6h as Ralph
  Thanks! 😉

  Posted September 8, 2015 7:08 AM

• by jwidness moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

  Could we also revisit CDMale07a (and sorry if this should go in a new thread, I can move it), who you proposed as a match to CDMale07 (now Mario)? I agreed then and I still agree that he is a match. He's big and bulky, with lots of baldness on top of his head, a lighter muzzle area, a rectangular face, pale lips, and a grey back with less grey on the legs. He also very clearly doesn't look like the b/w videos of Luigi, the only other named male with a grey back. (Side note, CDMale07a is also seen with Amy!)

  CDMale07a (sorry, none of the previews is very good 😕) from ACP00058f5:
  
  

  

  

  

  Luigi (from ACP000587x):
  
  

  

  

  Luigi (from ACP00058d1):
  
  

  Luigi's face is much more triangular, with even skin tone on the eye area and muzzle, his right ear is less prominent, he doesn't have the baldness on top, his body hair (especially around the inner elbow) doesn't look as thick, and the grey on his back extends down the legs.

  For ease of comparison, here's the Mario tag group: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/collections/CCPL0000cy

  Posted September 8, 2015 2:46 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

  No problem, here is well posted!,

  yes, I also agree with that, especially now that we have more information about the side of the group. I am going to add him to the Mario's group and tag the video. You can tag the videos also if you want.

  Good job jwidness!

  Posted September 9, 2015 9:22 AM

• by jwidness moderator

  With this black and white video we now agree is Mario, can we also talk about CDMale01a?

  Mario from ACP00058f5:
  
  

  

  

  
  
  
  

  CDMale01a from ACP0004zr0:
  
  

  

  

  And Mario tag group again for comparison: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/collections/CCPL0000cy

  I see the same big robust body, lots of baldness on top of his head, lighter muzzle, rectangular face, pale lips, grey back. (And he's also right after Amy!)

  CDMale01a also doesn't have any other possible matches besides Mario -- his back is too grey for Ralph and Luigi is already in that video.

  Posted September 9, 2015 9:59 PM

• by jwidness moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

  Ok, so CDMale01a has one other possible match which I was going to bring up later, but I think now is as good a time as any -- CDMale01 from ACP0005acj, ACP0005ack, ACP0005acl, ACP0005acm:

  

  

  

  

  Again I see the same features as Mario and CDMale01a -- big robust body, lots of baldness on top of his head, lighter muzzle, rectangular face, pale lips, white beard (not as white and full as Ralph's though), grey back, but darker legs. In the third image here, you can also make out the line in his skin by his right nostril that I pointed out in my first post in this thread on Mario/CDMale07.

  I think he looks fairly different from the other color videos of Mario both because he's up an incline from the camera, while in basically all the rest of the shots, he's either even with the camera or below it, and because his open mouth facial expression distorts his features a bit.

  Posted September 9, 2015 10:24 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Hi @jwidness,
  about these chimpanzees I hesitate more, maybe it is what you say about the incline, but there is something in this chimp that i can not see in Mario. CDMale01 has the face "bigger" and Mario has everything more close, as a smaller face... also the shoulders of CDMale01 look different for me...

  It could be, but I don't feel sure enough...

  Posted September 10, 2015 10:45 AM

• by jwidness moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

  What about CDMale01a? Don't you think he looks like Mario in ACP00058f5?

  Posted September 10, 2015 1:52 PM

• by PauDG scientist, moderator

  Yes, I think he looks like Mario, and also I think that he looks like CDMale01 someway 😕

  So that means that CDMale01 is Mario...? Probably, but I don't know, there is something CDMale01 that make me doubt. I know I'm very annoying with this, don't hate me please!

  I need to think more on this...
  Thanks!

  Posted September 10, 2015 2:53 PM

• by jwidness moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

  No problem, take your time! I thought about it quite a while before I was convinced -- I think the deep wrinkle by CDMale01's right nostril really sealed the deal for me.

  Posted September 10, 2015 4:08 PM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  Hey guys,

  sorry to be gossiping here, but I have had a look at @jwidness match proposal too (Male01 + Mario).

  they certainly look VERY alike, and this case needs some time extra...but I must agree with @PaulDG. Mario looks a bit more robust to me and his brows are somehow thicker and shorter...I don´t know if Male01´s face is bigger (like @PaulDG said) but I definitely see Mario´s face more lengthened.

  sorry if I am being more confusing now, but in this case I see two chimps: Mario+CDMale01a and CDMale01

  
  

  But again, this is not my last word...I understand @jwidness proposal, they look absolutely similar and deserve to be checked, but we should be 100% sure about a match, and here I am not 😦

  Posted September 11, 2015 6:38 AM