Chimp & See Talk

Adult male - the right hand issue

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Just seen this video sequence again (I think, found first by @jim pea and re-found by @drobinso) that reminds me of LSMale08 (and 08a and 09). Dark male with protruded brows (like a roof over his eyes). Left ear big and undamaged. Right one not seen. Dark back, dark testicles. Again something in his right hand ACP0005v2n, ACP0005v2o, ACP0005v2p, ACP0005v2q

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    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks a lot AnLAnd.

    I feel more confident with the back images ( ACP0005v2q and LSMale09 in ACP0005wka), than with the face images, because just when LSMale08 turns his face in the ACP0005wcn he leaves the frame, and is a little bit difficult to compare one b/w frontal image with a colour profile image, but I agree with the veeeery prominent eyebrows... and the back looks the same.

    We should try to confirm all these proposed matches between SLMale08/08a/09 and this one from ACP0005v2q ... what do you think?

    And what do the other users think about this proposal?

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    There might be no connection, but here is again a dark adult male who does not use the right hand - or is transporting something in it. ACP0005iij and ACP0005iik.

    Edit: sorry, videos were found by @Eswiniarski and @Snorticus!

    Here is the other one ACP0005ot4 that I also proposed to be a match to LSMale09 because of the wound on the shoulder. Again - not using the right hand or transporting something.

    Might be a coincidence, but ... strange.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Sorry, wrote another post while you were answering. We have now 4 videos with a dark male (ok, one in b/w) not using his right hand. The one with the butt wound (LSMale08 and 08a) is using his right hand. Not sure what that means.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    For the record as the situation is different: in all confirmed videos of Ebony, he is also not using his right hand. But ... he is feeding and seems to put (sometimes) something in it (as in gathering fruits). The brows in the different Ebony videos look sometimes also very prominent, sometimes not. The hand might look distorted or it's just my imagination. I am not sure, but I wanted not to ignore this.

    In Rufus' hand in ACP0005ujc who is also gathering fruits (with Ebony in the background) it looks different.

    Here the long Ebony scene http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000cxf. Here the other one with Amundi http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000cx6

    The dark male in ACP0005wkd that was proposed to be Ebony on the other hand is using both of his hands while walking.

    Maybe someone else could look into that male and the hand issue. Thanks!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I am going to add this male ACP0005v2n, ACP0005v2o, ACP0005v2p, ACP0005v2q to the list as LSMale10, because more or less we have good images from him and is easier to talk about them with names rather than with video names.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    I am not sure how to proceed now. You think, the hand issue is just a coincidence I should not pay too much attention to? It's ok, I am just not sure in what direction you would like to go. I only recognized it, but maybe, it is a minor fact.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hi AnLand, It could be coincidence, but also could an habit of one specific chimp. My advise would be not look for this "behavior" because is not something that we can use to ID but pay attention if we find it, because maybe he moves in a specific way or makes some specific movement when he has the hand busy and that can help us (as the way how Flocke was carried by Pearl)

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Ok, so what else do I see in LSMale09, LSMale10, and Ebony

    Dark back, hunched movement due to not using the right hand (he might be carrying something, but the not using of the hand even while moving in the lyanas is strange. It does not look easy. And I think it is not a coincidence.)

    Protruded, straighter brow. Big ears, mostly only the left one seen. Undamaged, but with a light streak of skin. Whiter spot on the right site of the muzzle. Quite some baldness.

    LSMale10

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    LSMale09 (better seen in video, but you need to believe in it, I guess 😉 )

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    Ebony (seen in ACP0005uj4)

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    First adult male from ACP0005ot4

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    One problem: Ebony from ACP0005n26 does not have the baldness and the protruded brows in my opinion, his left ear is quite triangular. Also, he is the only one with a white spot on the right site of his back in the middle. The others have - if true, a white spot on the right shoulder (these may be not permanent traits).

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    So, at the moment, I think LSMale09, LSMale10, the first guy from ACP0005ot4 and Ebony from this longer scene http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000cxf starting here from October 3rd, are a match. The other Ebony from ACP0005n26 is maybe not a match. Sorry, it is work in progress, but I would like to discuss this.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Wow! great work @AnLand!
    after studying all these videos for quite a while now I agree with most of your conclusions. The only thing I disagree is the ACP0005n26 conclusion: I'm still quite sure that this is also Ebony. I think the brighter spot on the right side of his back is not a permanent trait. After all, this video has been taken 4 months later. I think it would be also a very strange if two chimps with the same built and looks do have the same issue with the right hand. Too much of a coincidence for me 😃

    Another thing adding to my opinion might be the fact that in the long Ebony sequence there seems to be also a juvenile around. You can't see him clearly but the leafes are quite in motion: ACP0005uil

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I don't want to sound to harsh, I mean I was involved in that Ebony match in the first place. But after reviewing the new and old videos I am somehow irritated by the brows in ACP0005n26. Maybe the perspective is just odd. Everything else fit.

    I did not go into the juvenile on purpose. He is quite often seen with a juvenile, but a) I am not sure whether it is always the same juvenile (and what that would mean is big speculation) and b) in most cases there seem to be other chimps around, especially in the feeding scences where Ebony is confirmed.

    What I take from the videos is that he and Rufus are best buddies. 😉

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hello!!!

    It seems that finally is not a way of carry fruits, rather a damage in the hand someway... what a good eyesight you have AnLand!

    I also agree that LSMale09, LSMale10, the first guy from ACP0005ot4 are Ebony, so I am going to add them as Ebony in the Known chimp list. Great job!

    (I think that ACP0005n26 is ebony too 😉, and ACP0005iij ACP0005iik)

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    @AnLand - I think you did a really great job here identifying #Ebony's damaged hand, I am super super impressed! Great work! and Thank You!

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    I definitely think this was also good advice Paula and in the future should be always used but @AnLand's careful examination here really showed it's a defining marker. This is exactly the beauty of careful, measured data collection and letting the evidence speak for itself!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Thanks! Great discussion with everybody! I really think we got lucky having several videos of him. In each video on its own we would not be able to recognize it as it looks not really unnormal. As @Snorticus said, maybe a bit quirky, but why should he not hold his hand like this at a certain moment when the camera is running. I am very happy we could identify that as something special. Cool!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Yes!!! Cool!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    As it does not seem wise to merge the Ebony discussions, I will collect here the links to all other threads about him.

    Another bent back chimp & Ebony: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000ewf

    2nd vine chimp & Ebony: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000ewh

    Bent back & carrying food chimp & Ebony: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000ewe

    Ebony walking behind Krikkit?: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000f0p

    Update as now confirmed: Ebony & a juvenile (LSJuv05) in black & white http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000fiq

    The original Ebony matching:

    Adult male sitting -- Ebony: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000cxf

    adult male with juvenile - Ebony and Amundi: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000l/discussions/DCP0000cx6

    I will update this if more footage emerges and is confirmed. Please bring it to my attention if I missed something.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks @AnLand!!

    Posted