Group of six moving through a pass with Juvenile stopping to view camera

• by depuppy3

  From video series ACP00064oq ACP00064or ACP00064os ACP00064ot There are 2 Adult females carrying 2 unsexed infants followed by another infant on foot then drawing up the rear young juvenile stops to view camera before running up rock to "potty" then running off after the group.

  Posted October 5, 2015 9:12 PM

• by depuppy3

  

  Posted October 5, 2015 9:13 PM

• by depuppy3

  First Female with infant

  Posted October 5, 2015 9:14 PM

• by depuppy3

  2nd Female and Infant

  Posted October 5, 2015 9:17 PM

• by depuppy3

  Other Infant on foot to left of 2nd Female

  Posted October 5, 2015 9:19 PM

• by Snorticus

  Nice find depuppy3! This camera has good definition for ID-ing. Does that very funny juvenile match any of the ones that have been numbered on http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000o/discussions/DCP0000fzq (bottom of the page)? She/he has a great face!

  Posted October 5, 2015 9:24 PM

• by depuppy3

  Thank U. That was a terrific location for a camera and the clarity is awesome. I have yet to match them with the current dry-lake-11 known chimps but I will be working on it. Any help is appreciated

  Posted October 6, 2015 12:41 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to depuppy3's comment.

  Hey @depuppy3 , what a funny collection!! s/he is a great comedian 😛

  this juvenile deserves a termporary ID...from the other females and infants you only see their backs 😦

  you are doing an awsome job helping us with the chimp identification...I want to help you now. Look, we have now four juveniles with temporary IDs:

  DL11Juv1
  

  DL11Juv2
  

  DL11Juv3
  

  and your funny DL11Juv4
  

  At first I was thinking of DL11Juv2; both are more or less same big, the face shape looks quite alike... but DL11Juv2 has sort of more fluffy face sides 😕 what do you think? do we have a match here or do we have another single juvenile?

  any opinions?

  Posted October 6, 2015 4:40 AM

• by depuppy3

  

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:02 AM

• by depuppy3

  

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:02 AM

• by depuppy3

  Can we tell by these rear end comparisons? They do favor each other quite a bit

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:03 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to depuppy3's comment.

  hmmm...their backsides look different too 😦

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:26 AM

• by Snorticus

  ACP00064oq at the end of this clip, right before the juvenile enters it sounds like the juvenile whacks on the tree the camera is on - (juvenile drumming - cool!)

  ACP00064o1 ACP00064o2 check out these clips I found a little while ago, depuppy3

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:30 AM

• by Snorticus

  Here is the butt view ACP00064o1

  

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:32 AM

• by Snorticus

  ACP00064oq and ACP00064o0 have the dates of each of these series.

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:36 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

  Thanks @Snorticus!

  we have a new juvenile...or a match?

  for the moment s/he is DL11Juv5

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:42 AM

• by depuppy3

  That definitely looks like the same chimp @Snorticus.

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:47 AM

• by depuppy3

  I think they are a match @NuriaM, right @Snorticus? Both the one @Snorticus found and the one I found seem to be the exact same chimp

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:49 AM

• by depuppy3

  I believe they are both DL11Juv5. Also, I don't belive they match the other Juv listed

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:51 AM

• by Snorticus

  I think so also - it's funny how on 9-30-2012 this juvenile can't make it up the rock but 2 weeks later on 10-14-2012 it's shimmy up and show-off time, ha!

  Posted October 6, 2015 5:55 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  I agree with you too...I think we have a match here,

  I am very happy to see that s/he finally managed to climb the rock 😃

  Everyone agrees?

  Posted October 6, 2015 6:02 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  Yes, that looks convincing. And with ACP00064o0 we have a good view of mom too.

  Posted October 6, 2015 6:06 AM

• by Snorticus

  And a good view of that big headed infant with the skinny legs curled toes and a white tufted butt - I guess I need to add that to another thread - there are so many infants here, I could be mistaken though...

  Posted October 6, 2015 6:17 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

  @Snorticus, do you mind if @depuppy3 finds a name for the juvenile?

  Posted October 6, 2015 6:48 AM

• by Snorticus

  depuppy3 found this really cool sequence and got this discussion started so I think that is a great idea, NuriaM!

  Posted October 6, 2015 7:03 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  thanks @Snorticus,

  @depuppy3 , it´s now your turn...will you think of a nice name for this funny juvenile?

  Posted October 6, 2015 7:18 AM

• by depuppy3

  How about Piki? It means climb or ascend in Maori. Seems like it could go either male or female.

  Posted October 6, 2015 7:29 AM

• by Snorticus

  I like it!

  Posted October 6, 2015 7:32 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to depuppy3's comment.

  Piki is a very good choice 😃

  Thanks!!!

  Posted October 6, 2015 7:48 AM

• by MimiA scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

  @snorticus - what are the video labels for these dates? might make a nice blog post 😃

  Posted October 6, 2015 10:07 AM

• by Boleyn moderator

  There are two more videos ACP00064om and ACP00064on which I think depicture also Piki as well as the mom with the ventral Infant and the second juvenile from video ACP00064oq.

  Piki

  

  juvenile and mom

  

  

  Those two (well almost three 😃) remind me strongly of DLFemale1 and DLJuvenile1 from this video ACP0007a94

  

  

  It's a pity that the quality of the latter video is not as good as the ones from this site.

  Posted October 6, 2015 3:26 PM

• by Snorticus in response to MimiA's comment.

  ACP00064oq and ACP00064o0 have the dates of each of these series of Piki and family. That chimp is a hoot!

  Posted October 6, 2015 3:58 PM

• by Snorticus

  9-30-2012 Attempted climb Full series: ACP00064o0 ACP00064o1 ACP00064o2 ACP00064o3

  10-14-2012 Pooping Full series: ACP00064oq ACP00064or ACP00064os ACP00064ot

  Posted October 6, 2015 4:30 PM

• by depuppy3 in response to Boleyn's comment.

  I may be wrong but it appears to me that the above set Female has gray around her mouth/muzzle, and the set below Female doesn't appear to the same. However, the lighting is quite different, so I may be in error.

  Posted October 6, 2015 7:01 PM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  Attempted climb Full series: ACP00064o0 , ACP00064o1 , ACP00064o2 and ACP00064o3 😃

  @Boleyn, I´m not sure, but I don´t want to lose this option neither. I will put Fem1 and Juv1 together with Piki & Co. in the list of possible matches, so that everyone can check them later easily...

  thanks for your proposal!

  Posted October 8, 2015 7:49 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

  For the moment I will give them a temporary ID: DL11Female12 and DL11Juv7

  Posted October 8, 2015 7:57 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  Maybe I missed this somehow, but I cannot find a temporary ID for the female (with a dorsal infant) who has been seen with Piki in ACP00064o0. The face shot from her is brief, but some features are clearly seen. The brows are rather straight with only a small dent. She is quite bald. The face looks quite flat (muzzle and nostrils) and a bit grayer in the strong sunlight, right ear is present and undamaged. It's a bit bent. The reflecting spot between ear and brows might be a permanent mark, but I am not sure. She looks quite robust.

  Sorry, if she has described earlier elsewhere, but I cannot find her.

  

  

  There seem to be a white spot on the back of her head.

  

  Posted October 31, 2015 1:46 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I also looked briefly in the other Piki sequence and on the first glance, it seems that the rear (swelling) of the female with the ventral infant in ACP00064oq and ACP00064or looks more like that of the one in ACP00064o0 (here the infant rides dorsally).

  In this first picture, it is also seen that she has a white spot on the left side of her back.

  

  

  The other (first) female in ACP00064oq with a dorsal infant seems to have considerable more loose skin around it.

  

  Videos are two weeks apart. The difference looks for me not necessarily as cycling differences.

  Posted October 31, 2015 2:14 PM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  hi @AnLand,

  yes, I think we missed her...we (I 😃 ) started to analyze this series with ACP00064o1 and not with ACP00064o0, the first video with this new female. You r right, they need an ID.

  DL11Female25 / DL11Infant20

  Thanks!!!

  Posted November 2, 2015 5:42 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  I think, this is Female25 and her infant again. Same gray face and white spot on the back of the head. Straighter browline. Ear are big and present. General body build (a bit more robust) and back view fit. Infant and age fit too. ACP0007332 and ACP0007333

  

  

  Posted November 17, 2015 4:18 PM

• by ksigler moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  I agree with you, @AnLand. Large gray ears, gray chin, spot on head, rear view and infant's wide head and large ears(must run in the family) all look the same to me, as well.

  Posted November 17, 2015 10:19 PM

• by jwidness moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  What do you think about Fem24? (I'm also thinking about ACP0007306, but I think I'll have to work a lot harder to convince anyone there.)

  For comparison:
  
  @AnLand is matching Fem25 from ACP00064o0
  
  

  and the female from ACP0007332
  
  

  and I'm asking about Fem24 from ACP0006rau
  
  

  Posted November 18, 2015 5:33 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  AGREED 😃 !!!!

  if I had to spoil the party I would doubt about Fem24, but it would be only because of the bad pic. quality...

  Posted November 18, 2015 7:33 AM

• by jwidness moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

  The more I look at it, the more I think Fem24 is the same as @AnLand's female (that is, Fem25 and the female from ACP0007332)

  She's a bigger lady, but kind of top-heavy with a smaller waist. She has a large and wide head, her eye area is dark but her muzzle is more mottled and she has a white chin. Her brows have a light dip in the middle. Her thighs are big, but her legs taper strongly into (I think comically 😉) small ankles. Her leg hair is black, short, and smooth. Her lower back is grey. Her arm hair is very fluffy until three quarters of the way down, when it suddenly tapers.

  

  I saw one more video in the spreadsheet I think is her -- ACP000728k

  

  

  Her rear is the right color, shape, and size. Her leg hair is the same, and she has the same taper to her legs. Her infant is the right size.

  Posted November 19, 2015 4:58 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  I see that we all agree (yes?):

  Fem24 + Fem25 + Fem27 = MATCH !!!!

  let´s give these three ladies a name and then we can discuss about ACP000728k (I agree that she could be the same...but you know my opinion about rears 😃 )

  Posted November 19, 2015 6:44 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  Maybe one more (suggestive) support for matching also Female24: in ACP0006rax an older juvenile is following that has (only this seen) at least the right size and long and light face of DL11Juv5. The mentioned white spot on the knee is hard to judge. I tend to see it as an artefact of the bad video quality and the fast running.

  

  You know that I really do not like matching only the back view, but to be open: I had ACP000728k also on my list as a possible match as I studied her rear before in this thread.

  That said: As I proposed the first part of this three-female-match, I would like to name the female. (But you can convince me not to do so if you think your name is much better than what I am thinking of. 😃 )

  Posted November 19, 2015 4:46 PM

• by jwidness moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  She's definitely yours!

  Posted November 19, 2015 6:34 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  So if nobody else steps in, I propose the following names: Ilsa (for the adult female) and Bohe (for her dorsal infant).

  (I hope naming a chimp after @Bohe is not against protocol - or inappropriate. It is meant as a compliment and thank you.)

  Posted November 20, 2015 5:56 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  it´s a pity that I don´t have the whatsapp emoticons here, because it´s the right moment for a flamenca dancing of joy... but maybe this: ☼ it´s supposed to be a sun, a joy sun 😛

  thanks @AnLand...lovely names (now a whatsapp heart would fit)...I´ll try something: ♥♥♥♥

  Posted November 20, 2015 8:01 AM

• by yshish moderator

  Haha, this is funny! Now let's hope no one will confuse @ for # while mentioning Bohe, the researcher one, as it sometimes happens on the Talk 😉

  Posted November 20, 2015 4:47 PM

• by ksigler moderator in response to yshish's comment.

  Hahah, that's what I was thinking, too. When I first saw the thumbnails of all the videos @NuriaM had tagged in the Recent list, I was like, "are we tagging the field teams now?" 😃 I like the name Ilsa, though, it's very pretty!

  Posted November 20, 2015 8:00 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  In ACP00074ak (found by @Kimvbelle), we see an adult female (decent view on a gray face, but shadowed) with a dorsal infant that reminds me strongly of Ilsa with Bohe. She is medium sized and rather robust build. According to the spreadsheet, she might be the female on the far left of ACP00074ac, ACP00074ad, ACP00074ae, ACP00074af (April 30, 2013, 14:40). The new video is 14:41. In ACP00074ac, an older juvenile is present that has the same size as the juvenile we've seen twice with Ilsa before (DL11Juv5)

  There is something (maybe only the coloring or a certain bent and straightness in the upper ear) on her right ear that is seen also in ACP0007332. I cannot say what it is, but it irritated me already in this video.

  Face view somehow better in the first second of the video ACP00074ak

  

  Juvenile a minute before:

  

  The whole scene starts in ACP000749w, ACP000749y, ACP00074a0, ACP00074a2 with other chimps (females with infants and at least one male and one juvenile). I am not clear whether we see all present.

  She (the matching proposal to Ilsa) seems to be the female iwth infant coming in ACP00074a0 and ACP00074a2. It is not much more seen from her but robust, medium sized body build and baldness. The juvenile who is leaving in ACP00074a0 is smaller than the one seen with her. There seem to be another chimp already near the water on the far left that might be the older juvenile (so might be DL11Juv5).

  Just as a note: in ACP000749w - the first dark female with the ventral infant seems to have a bigger white patch on her back. Not more traits seen.

  Posted November 25, 2015 4:59 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  when I first saw these new female/infant (now DL11Female30/DL11Infant25) I thought of Ilsa and Bohe as well... :] . Maybe we can match the juvenile too (now DL11Juv19)!

  Posted November 25, 2015 7:16 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  I´m not sure if I should tag ACP00074ac, ACP00074ad, ACP00074ae, ACP00074af with DL11Female30/DL11Infant25 too 😕

  Posted November 25, 2015 7:31 AM

• by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

  It does appear that it's DL11Female30/DL11Infant25 through all 3 sequences ( ACP00074a0, ACP00074a2, and ACP00074ac, ACP00074ad, ACP00074ae, ACP00074af, and ACP00074ak ). The time gaps make it less than certain, though. I agree that they look like a match to Ilsa and Bohe.

  Re: Juv19 in ACP00074ac, since the juvenile goes off before the mother/infant, and they don't leave until the next sequence after a brief time gap, I don't think we can conclude that they are a family. There are lots of chimps going through this area during this time. The original mother/infant could have gone off the the left as another pair came in from the right. Plus I can't see enough to say it's a match to Juv5. 😦

  Posted November 25, 2015 10:29 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

  you are absolutely right. The group is quite big and the juvenile could belong to any mom...yes, let´s exclude this possibility :{

  but I support Ilsa and Bohe´s match.

  Posted November 26, 2015 5:27 AM