Chimp & See Talk

2 bald mothers with back scars?

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    @Boleyn, @AnLand and myself were looking at whether these 2 sequences included the same mothers with large scars on the backs. In the 2nd sequence, the juvenile is larger and the mother's scar is smaller. However, the time difference is only 2 months, so that's why I think they are different pairs. But... this is up for discussion, and if nothing else, will help match these 2 if more clips of similarly marked chimps are found.

    In this sequence at the watering hole, on the far left, we have a mother with a juvenile drinking water. The mother is medium-sized, mostly dark (her legs may have some gray), and has a large white scar on the right side of her back. She also has 2 light, protruding ears (unable to see condition) and no hair on her head. Her lower jaw seems to protrude as well(?). The juvenile's appearance and movements make it seem very young. It may have a light spot on top of its head (or reflection) and it has a white tail tuft.

    ACP000692f | ACP000692g | ACP000692h | ACP000692i

    Back scar seen here, from ACP000692g:

    Mother's scar

    Bald head & juvenile seen here, from ACP000692h:

    Mother's head

    In the 2nd sequence, we have a mother and juvenile at a termite mound. I'm assuming they're a pair, though the juvenile was seen there first before the female approached with the tool. The mother is small-medium, dark all over, with a medium-sized scar on the right-middle side of her back. She is bald, with 2 ears (the right seems full intact) and a little bit of a white beard. The juvenile is only seen briefly, but is a little older, with little to no white on its rump.

    ACP0006v9s | ACP0006v9t | ACP0006v9u | ACP0006v9v

    Juvenile on mound, from ACP0006v9s:

    Juvenile

    Mother's back, from ACP0006v9v:

    Mother's back

    Mother's head, from ACP0006v9t:

    Mother's head

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Hi @ksigler ,

    this is interesting...although the first sequence has a poor video quality, I will give the female with the scar an ID. I think it shouldn´t be so common to see many females with similar scars on the right sides of their backs, and that´s why I would love to keep this thread open to discussion. My personal opinion is that we should see an infant near the second scared female, that´s why I am a bit sceptical, but I want to read more opinions.

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thanks #ksigler for posting this. Initially I just wanted to point out the drinking female chimp with the scar on the back to @AnLand because I knew she had seen one in another video already. I agree with @NuriaM that there should be an infant around with the one at the mound.

    in video ACP0006v9t @depuppy3 pointed out that there is an infant behind the mound. But I'm not able to see it. Maybe someone else?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to Boleyn's comment.

    This sequence may start with ACP0006vao 4-18-2013 18:19 - a juvenile is at the mound and a mom dangling a stick from her mouth & infant arrive & go behind the mound. It's hard to see her in the following sequences but I think she stays there through the 1st and 2nd sequence.

    ACP0006vap

    ACP0006vaq - a male appears from behind mound, right side

    ACP0006var - bald female's head barely seen, left behind mound

    ACP0006vaq - as female sits down there is something I see on her back but unclear. (better seen in clip)

    female with infant

    2nd sequence:
    ACP0006vb8 4-18-2013 18:20 - new male enters, sits left front of mound

    ACP0006vb9
    ACP0006vba
    ACP0006vbb

    3rd sequence: ACP0006v9s 4-18-2013 18:28 - (8 minutes later) - A juvenile present, the scar-back female enters dangling a stick from her mouth - may or may not be the same chimp first seen, and infant may or may not still be behind the mound...

    ACP0006v9t
    ACP0006v9u
    ACP0006v9v

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    wow!!

    ok....in these three sequences I see a new juvenile (DL11Juv12 in ACP0006vao ...), two new males (DL11Male6 in ACP0006vao ... and DL11Male7 in ACP0006vb8...) and I have decided to give the scarback female an ID (DL11Female18), even though her traits are not quite visible, but still her scar is relevant...

    @Snorticus, what you see on the female´s back in ACP0006vaq is the hand of her ventral infant 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    great job @Snorticus !

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Infant's hand on back - thanks for clarifying that NuriaM 😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000692a 2-11-2013 18:39 (6 minutes later than clip that begins this discussion)

    Here is another view of back & scar on DL11Female15. Her infant is hard to see but is under her grabbing to ride ventrally.

    Scar back mom

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    hashtagged...

    thanks 😃

    Posted

  • depuppy3 by depuppy3

    Credit to @Dana23 for this find

    ACP0006927 ACP0006928 ACP0006929

    Bald Female from a distance but seems ears are intact with ventral and possibly a juvenile. They are drinking when an alarm call or disturbance in the trees gets their attention

    Posted

  • depuppy3 by depuppy3

    This is the Female

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • depuppy3 by depuppy3

    After the disturbance the youngster runs to Mom

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • depuppy3 by depuppy3

    This is the only pic that includes much of the other possible Juvenile

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to depuppy3's comment.

    hey @depuppy,

    this is great! these are new videos belonging to the DL11Female15 / DL11Infant14 sequence. This is amazing, because we have been discussing about this lady (she has a white spot on her back) matching with others, but the video quality makes it very tricky. Now we have more videos to check.

    I am merging this thread with the one with Female15, so that we have all the videos together. And they are tagged too 😃

    Thanks!!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to depuppy3's comment.

    I'm glad you posted this new sequence @depuppy3 because now we can see that DL11Female15 has white marks on either side of her back. There's no still shot of it but it can be seen in video ACP000692a around second 7-8.

    Glad because it once more underlines my point that this female is a match to DL11Female23 and possibly also Fem1 and Fem18. Lots of similarities between those four like baldness, ears, fur color, browline, rather large ventral infant and juvenile. I know that the scientist want to have more on the feature side but the video quality mostly does not allow for this which is of course a pity.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    you are right @Boleyn ... these videos show more similarities...we will go back to your match proposal shortly 😃

    Posted