Chimp & See Talk

Diagonal back patch lady

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    At this point I'm leaning to the conclusion that there are two females with back spots. One has a smaller dot, the other has a larger somewhat diagonal patch. The one with the small dot always carries her infant ventral, and is seen with a smallish juvenile. The one with the larger patch carries her infant both ventral and dorsal, and is usually seen with a med/large juvenile. Both are very bald. I'm giving each their own thread with this same intro. I didn't reread everything said about these females before, so I apologize for repeating things from other people -- these ideas are not all my own, but I don't remember who said what previously. I look forward to hearing other opinions -- I'm sure I've missed some details, and I'm not totally convinced myself that I have it right anyway ; )

    Female with large diagonal patch on back:

    DLFem15

    enter image description here

    DLFem18 -- she's tagged in ACP0006v9t ACP0006v9u ACP0006v9v, but you can see her bald patch in ACP0006vaq, meaning she's also in ACP0006vao ACP0006vap ACP0006vaq ACP0006var, and ACP0006vb8 ACP0006vb9 ACP0006vba ACP0006vbb

    enter image description here

    DLFem28 and DLFem23 (timestamps are 1 minute apart, this is the same female) ACP00073ya ACP00073yb ACP00073yc ACP00073yd ACP00073yu

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    DLFem22 -- her back looks greyer at times, but when she crosses through shadows it's darker, so I think it only looks really grey when it's lit by direct sun

    enter image description here

    ACP0006ldu (spot not seen on preview, but visible on video)

    enter image description here

    close female in ACP0006uqx ACP0006uqy ACP0006uqz ACP0006ur1 (might also be in ACP0006ur9 ACP0006ura ACP0006urb ACP0006urc ACP0006urd ACP0006ure ACP0006urf ACP0006urg which are 25 minutes later, but it's not clear to me that they are the same) -- her bald area is hard to see, but it's there

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    thanks @jwidness for this collection. I must admit that those back marks are indeed remarkable traits to be taken into account when considering a match. But actually these back patches might be common in moms that carry big infants ventrally. Some studies suggest that there is an infant weight limit for clinging, before mom´s hairs break or fall. According to some authors, this weight limit could be 5 Kg in gorillas and chimps.

    `...this does not mean that infants over 5 kg will fall. Larger infants may travel briefly in ventral position during stressful situations (Fossey 1979) or when the chimpanzee mother swings through trees (Goodall 1967). Usual locomotion of adult African apes is terrestrial quadrupedalism (~96% of the time in gorillas and ~86% in chimpanzees, from Doran 1997), and safe infant support over longer periods clearly requires the necessity of change to a mounting position, with the infant weight supported by the adult body´ (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2270361/ ).

    If we have a look at the infants here, they are all big and some of them even walk and separate from mom. That would perhaps explain why they have two marks on both sides of their backs and right where female´s back hairs withstand more pressure from infant´s hands 😃

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    This is a good point. We've seen in some clips where the mothers with the back spots were carrying the infants ventrally, the hands lined up exactly with the spots. And surely the hair doesn't break evenly, at the same length, at the same time. So regrowth will be irregular and unpredictable, as well. I wish they'd make this a little easier for us. 😛

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    let´s not use these patches as definite traits to claim matches, but no doubt they help!

    by the way, thank @ksigler for this Using smileys and symbols in posts .I don´t know if I inspired you to post it : }, but I found it very nice of you : *

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I'd been thinking about it for a couple of weeks, but yes, when you were playing around with the emoticons the other day, it motivated me to do it. 😄

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    :]

    Posted