Chimp & See Talk

Front chimp - female?

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Is the chimp in the foreground a female or juvenile or what?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi @Snorticus,

    with the light face, I had this chimp as a juvenile in my notes. But you are right. She has quite a sexual swelling, so I agree we should consider her as a female. Maybe a younger one. It's hard to say with the night vision only.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Thanks, AnLand - I had initially assumed juvenile also but doubted when I saw that bottom today.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I will move this thread to the DL-11 board as I want to say some more about it.

    I'm staring at the night chimps video (for several reasons) for quite some time. One point is to figure out whether we will - ever - be able to identify one of the night chimps (without any really obvious mark). So, I will start a discussion and propose that the female adult arriving with a carried kid in the background is Tyra with Toby. Size / age of the kid fits. She has a remarkable swelling that is here not fully swollen, but has still this long form we've seen here ACP0006cfy. I also see her long face, bald forehead, and gray beard. Family arriving in ACP0007e21.

    Just to discuss it.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I'll add two other videos (in two posts).

    One I did not see before, but swelling, long face, gray (here lighter) beard, position of the infant on mom's back, and body build suggest to me Tyra and Toby in this video ACP0006o5g.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    The other one is a match proposal to Ilsa and Bohe and DL11Juv5. I post it here because, it's a night chimp video too and I am not sure whether we want to discuss this at all. The lovely night family scene consists of a robust, medium-sized female, a dorsal infant and an older juvenile. I base the matching on the body build of the female, the slightly flat and thin ear, the back view (best seen here: ACP0007332 and here: ACP00064o0 (the latter video is several months (9 months) before the others). Most of all, I see the white spot on the back of the female's head like in the other Ilsa videos.

    There is also a small white spot on the female left side of the back. It's cornered by Bohe's left knee in ACP00064o0 and also seen here approx. where the infant's left elbow and knee are moving. The uneven back/rear coloration is intensified by the black/white footage, but I see similarities to Ilsa.

    Although context is missing, I strongly believe that the juvenile here is her's and that DL11Juv5 belong to this family.

    ACP00072bh and ACP00072bj

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    A more suggestive addition to the Ilsa, Bohe, and DL11Juv5 match is this scene ACP0007a7s, ACP0007a7t, ACP0007a7u, ACP0007a7v

    I see the same back view of a medium-sized, robust female with a dorsal infant. The ear might be the same, but hard to see.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    But most intriguingly, we do see the older juvenile with a face view. It's not easy to compare with DL11Juv5, but s/he has a more narrow face with an even color and a small bald spot above the brows. The face looks overall a bit pointed. Body size fits in my opinion.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    For very esoteric reasons: this might be Ilsa with Bohe and DL11Juv5 too: ACP00077sf

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hi @AnLand,

    I strongly support your Ilsa+Bohe+Juv5 proposal.

    As for Tyra and Toby, I am not so sure. This new female´s legs appear a bit thinner to me than Tyra´s. But I need more opinions; night videos are not easy to match, and besides you can barely see their faces... 😕

    but I will place them together in our Possible matches list.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    About the Tyra match I am not sure here either. Mainly because - it looks like that she has quite a belly in both occasions ACP0006o5g and ACP0007e22.

    I hope some other people could look into the Ilsa match proposal with Bohe and DL11Juv5 too.

    The postings were mainly an attempt to look whether we can use the night videos for matching as well. I also find it very difficult. Thanks for looking into it!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    let´s see what the others think, but i really see your Ilsa + Bohe proposal 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Hi @NuriaM,

    I looked into the list of possible matches thread http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000o/discussions/DCP0000gm7 and I am not sure whether you misunderstood my two different proposals.

    I propose (and support weakly): ACP0007e21, ACP0007e22 / ACP0006o5g / Tyra + Toby

    and as a different match proposal (and I strongly believe in it) : Ilsa + Bohe + DL11Juv5 / ACP0007a7s, ACP0007a7t, ACP0007a7u, ACP0007a7v / ACP00072bh and ACP00072bj / (and maybe: ACP00077sf)

    So, maybe we have to discuss this again. Sorry, if I did not make it very clear.

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I can agree with the proposed matches with Ilsa & Bohe, except your "maybe" ACP00077sf. Not enough seen in the last one for me to be sure about it. Same with the Tyra/Toby proposal.

    I think I can agree on Juv5 being the same juv in all of their sequences. That is, I don't see anything that makes me disagree with it, and it would make sense that they are all in the same family.

    In general, I think it's fine to match based on night clips. Sometimes it's even easier because there is less glare and you can see small features better. The hair color and density look different, though, so it helps if they have other distinguishing traits (like Ilsa's spot on the back of her head).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    sorry @AnLand, you made it absolutely clear...I actually understood your proposals (and support Ilsa + Bohe´s), but I got myself into a mess when placing them in the list.

    Sorry!! :}

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I am not sure either about ACP00077sf . I have the feeling that the juvenile is a bit bigger than Juv5 and as @ksigler says, we can´t see enough of them to be sure 😦

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    No problem. My reasoning for ACP00077sf was based on size and members of this family, the very small swelling and robust body build of the female and the very thin hair around the juvenile neck. But I could not say for sure that other juveniles do not have this. So, I am good with this. One cannot see much and we probably have at least one other femaly with a robust mom, a small infant and an older juvenile ( http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000o/discussions/DCP0000l59 ) as I cannot see Ilsa in DL11Female21 and for ACP00071qe I cannot see enough from the female or other family members.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Before the year ends, I would like to ask whether we will later re-visit the Ilsa + Bohe match or rather not? I am not sure what the plan is.

    @NuriaM: you want to discuss them again in the "Suggestions ..." framework later? I am fine it, we just got away from here and I am not sure.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Yes, I changed their position in the list of possible matches so that they come next for discussion (after our current discussion on Fem18 and ACP0006ldb).

    Posted