Chimp & See Talk

Match to Female6 (and 7)?

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I'm sure this is Female6's scruffy rear in ACP00077tx ACP00077tz ACP00077u1 ACP00077u2

    She's also got the same energetic large dorsal infant, and I'd be willing to bet the large juvenile is hers too. Her face is dark and she has dark lips and a pale beard. She's somewhat larger in the upper body, thinner legs. Her infant has a boxy face.

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    Female6 for comparison from ACP00070gd:

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    I also think this is probably her too ACP00077qj -- same cam as the first sequence, 1 day later. Large dorsal infant, very scruffy looking rear.

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    I know we were still considering the match of Female6 to Female7 -- I think with a lot of emphasis on the match of their infants. We don't see much of this infant's face (in ACP00077tx), but I see the same boxy outline.

    Female7 and infant in ACP00072fs

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    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP00074eg dated 4-25-2013
    The infant who leaves the female (with slender legs and a long dark face) - top of frame to scamper down for a drink has big ears and a large boxy head. May not get a good enough look at these two for an acceptable ID but I think it's Fem 6 and Inf 5 Best seen in the clip.

    ACP00072fs dated 6-26-2-13
    I'm not sure if the size is right for a match with Fem 7 and Inf 6 - that infant looks smaller with skinnier legs to me but I could be wrong.

    Fem and infant with boxy head

    Infant with big ears boxy head

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    I agree with @jwidness about the new sequence ( ACP00077tx ) with the female with the scruffy rear. 😃 It's a unique pattern, and appears to match Female6... and by association, Infant5, and unnamed juvenile.

    Tracing our previous discussions of possible matches, this could end up being a huge match:

    On the Known/Prospective List, it suggests that Fem6/Inf5 are a match to Fem2/Inf2. I completely agree with it, though the older juvenile is missing with Fem2/Inf2. It also says Fem7/Inf6 are a match to Fem2/Inf2, but I'll get back to that.

    AND... while I'm thinking about it, I think Fem17/Inf16 might also be them. Juv11 and the juvenile in the new sequence ( ACP00077tx ) and in ACP00070ge (with Fem6/Inf5) do look alike. On the List of Possible Matches, it's proposed that Fem7/Inf6 are a match to Fem17/Inf16, but again, I'll get back to that.

    Regarding Inf5 matching Inf6, I would have to agree. The body size and shape are similar, with the boxy head, big ears, sparse hair on the stomach and inner legs, and very visible genitals (for an infant). So, yes, I think HE is the same, and also Inf2 and Inf16.

    We discussed these matches with Female7 before. I had doubts then, and she still bugs me a little bit. The one sitting on the branches closest to the camera, right? Are we sure that this is the mother of Infant6, or even a female chimp? If so, then okay, I'll agree that if they're together, and the infants match, then the mothers must match, also. It may just be the lighting and blocked view by the leaves, but Fem7 seems to have light, bushy eyebrows and a very white beard... and her head in general is quite large and square. all more so than (in my opinion) the other females described here. There is also a bald adult sitting further into the trees, eating and actually paying a lot more attention to the young ones than Fem7 on the branch that keeps turning away. Thoughts?

    So... pulling all this together, in my opinion, it could be:

    Female 2 / 6 / 7? / 17 / unnamed female in ACP00077tx sequence (new in this thread)

    Infant 2 / 5 / 6 / 16 / unnamed infant in ACP00077tx sequence (new in this thread)

    Juvenile 11 / unnamed juv in ACP00077tx sequence (new in this thread) / unnamed juv in ACP00070ge sequence (with Fem6/Inf5) / unnamed juv ACP00072fs (tapping camera with Fem7/Inf6)?

    @Snorticus - In ACP00074eg, they go by very quickly, especially the adult female, and the infant is at an odd angle. By looking at them, I see the resemblance, but I'm really not sure. My main doubt, however, is because of the timestamps. This would be the earliest (by a couple of months) clip of this infant among the ones under comparison, yet I think the infant here looks larger with a smaller white tail tuft than the others. Again, tough angle... I wouldn't be surprised if I was wrong. Let's get some more opinions on it.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Phew, that's a lot of videos! I'll try to address them in order, but talking about so many at once is a little confusing no matter how you do it. Hopefully I make myself clear : )

    I'm not super confident about including Fem2/Inf2 -- they move pretty quickly, but I don't see anything obviously wrong about them.

    I definitely think Fem6/Inf5 (and by association the juv in the background with them) are part of the match.

    I have the same reservations about Fem7 as ksigler -- there are at least 2 adults, 2 infants, and 2 juveniles and it's not 100% clear that Inf6 goes with her. With multiple juveniles around, it's also unclear to me which one would be part of the match. Inf6 does look pretty good to me for the match though.

    I'm also not confident about Fem17/Inf16/Juv11 -- Inf16 looks pretty good, but we see very little of the juv in any other sequence, so that's not a help, and we can't see much of Fem17.

    I definitely think the female/infant/juvenile from ACP00077tx are part of the match -- the juvenile again by association

    I'm not that confident about the female/infant from ACP00077qj -- the rear looks right to me, but no face view.

    I agree with ksigler about ACP00074eg -- the infant there looks bigger than the rest of them to me.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    Hi @jwidness, do you mean that ironic? 😉

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    wow 😮

    ok...let´s start from the beggining:

    to make things a bit easier, let´s give ACP00077tx ACP00077tz ACP00077u1 ACP00077u2 an ID: DL11Female32/DL11Infant27

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I absolutely go for Female 2 + 6 + 32. Remember that we saw a small bald patch on Female2´s left leg? I think I can recognize it on the first second in ACP00077tz of Female32.

    As for number 7 and 17 I am not so sure...Female7 is too far away and hidden behind the branches. And the same for Female17.

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    Awesome, at least we have a little bit of agreement, and can focus on some of the individual issues.

    @NuriaM - We don't see much of Fem2's left leg... Do you mean the small bald patch on Fem6's left leg?

    Fem6's bald patch on her left upper thigh, and the angular bare spot on her hip/upper thigh, interestingly shaped like a little leg, from ACP00070gd:

    Fem6 spot on leg
    Fem6 hip

    And as you said about Fem32, in ACP00077tz, the small spot on the thigh is justbarelyvisible, and the one on her hip/thigh is very clear:

    Fem32

    @jwidness - As for ACP00077qj, I agree that it's also Fem32/Inf27. The rears look the same, and while you can't see the bare spot on the hip/thigh, it's because Inf27's leg is there, which I think is what has caused the bareness in the first place.

    Mother and infant

    And Fem2 has it, though we see it from the right side (assuming it's symmetrical), in ACP00072zi:

    Fem2/Inf2

    Okay, enough for now so we can keep working through this. (I'm not giving up on Fem17 & family. 😃 )

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP00077tx 5-5-2013, the juvenile with Fem32 and Inf27 - Only a rear view but I think this juvenile walks like Rowney in ACP00079uu. To me it looks as if Rowney picks the left leg up, bows the knee outward and the bottom of the foot inward toward the right ankle when taking a step in an unusual way. I see the same walk in the juvenile in ACP00077tx and the white rounded anus with the protruding top looks the same. Size seems right and the dark coloring, but of course only a rear view. Is this really an unusual walk or maybe I watched the clip too many times?

    Fem32 - I agree with the discussion above that she is a match to Fem2 and Fem6 (who I think is Raminta, though that has not been certified by NuriaM.) Same scruffy rear and I think I can see a nick in her left ear like Fem6 has. Also brow looks prominant at the very last.

    Infant27 - This is a very active infant like Fem6’s Inf5 and the face and head shape are very similar as seen in Inf2 especially; gnome-like face with big ears large cranium, wide mouth. Can’t see the Infant’s right knee to check for the white spot seen in ACP0006tfc and in ACP00070gd

    I also agree that Fem2 and Inf2 are a match to Fem32 and Inf27 and to Fem6 and Inf5.

    And I think they all match Raminta and family. Can we check this discussion again?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hey @Snorticus, you are the `checker´! 😃

    let´s see:

    Female2 + Female32 = Raminta (agreed with Female6 😉 ).

    agree? I do 😃

    Posted