Chimp & See Talk

Vili (DBJuv02) -- A brave juvenile with an adult behind

  • yshish by yshish moderator

    Juvenile


    Adult

    video:
    ACP00083gd | ACP00083ge | ACP00083gg

    __
    Hope I did it correctly, it is my the very first time πŸ˜‡

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Just love that face! And the adult has a rather distinctive face also.

    @yshish - so long you've been here and I didn't realize you hadn't posted yet, Good job! πŸ˜„

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to yshish's comment.

    Great @yshish, I hope we find her(?) again. Unfortunately at first glance, I do not see a very special trait. Rounded brows, even and light face color, ears not damaged, small whitish bear. Age: 5-6 years (not an expert here, just an opinion). The female might be mom, is robust and bald. Maybe that helps later.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @Dana23 found this juvenile chimp and I think the very rounded, thick brows, the face coloration and especially the ears (a tiny bit pointy, more on the right) look very much like the juvenile above. I still think, she is a girl and seems to get thinner hair above the brows midline. ACP00083z1 and ACP00083z4

    There is an adult around, but not much seen.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    good point @AnLand

    actually this large dorsal infant looks also like her Huge dorsal infant or juvenile?

    Additionally the mother seems to have the same Mickey Mouse ears @Snorticus mentioned in the comments to this video ACP00083gg of her. You see I also tend to call her a girl. Only girls can be that bold, right? πŸ˜„

    So either the juveniles look all about the same at DawnBird or... πŸ˜ƒ

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP00083ge One thing we can see is the left ear antihelix ridge (had to google ear structure terms) is fairly horizontal and connects about the middle of the helix. That ridge on the inside of the ear is an unusual shape and position in relation to the ear rim so we might see that left ear shape again.

    left ear structures

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator

    Hah, I've just noticed this guy looks similar to the one I found: ACP00083vi

    ..but you've already post it here! :E

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @Boleyn, I like the idea and understand the motivation behind it. I guess, it will be hard - as always - with the juveniles. They often look very much alike. I tried to pay attention especially to the ears - even without any damage, I think, the ears are the most recognizable trait and we have in both sequences very good ear footage.

    With the dorsal juvenile, only the left ear is seen. It does not look very different, but I at least cannot see very many details. The ears of the female / adult (in the case of the first sequence here) are indeed very big and sticking out. I guess, we have to see whether this is a "family trait" in this community or something unique.

    But, yes, I really like the idea and we have enough time to look into it.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to yshish's comment.

    Cool, with the small darker marks under the eyes, that is an additional "proof". Vey good, I did not really look for more footage from that scene and followed only up to the other find.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to yshish's comment.

    I agree with you @yshish about the similarities between ACP00083ge and ACP00083vi They both have lower lips that stick out a little and catch the light in the center making them light colored, both have a bit of white hair on the sides of the muzzle and chin, and the left ear of ACP00083vi looks like it has that horizontal ridge that I talked about seeing in ACP00083ge in the post above.

    ACP00083gd The chimp in this clip has a fairly big rounded belly and the body shape is similar to ACP00083vi I think. The very rounded pink brows stick out in both. The dark under eye crescents are there in both too and the cheeks both have fluffy hair that sticks out.

    Not very scientific of me - but they seem to both be rather lively and have fearless attitudes about the camera πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Great team work! that is amazing

    I totally agree that this chimps are the same (DBJuv02)

    I am not that sure with

    They very similar but all the juveniles are very similar. Is not that clear for me at least and I would like to think about that more.
    What do you think?

    But we can add this young chimp( ACP00083vi / ACP00083gd) to our known list! the first known juvenile!!!

    @yshish, I think you were first proposing the match between them, but in your second post you said that someone had proposed ACP00083vi before but I can not find it… Who was it?

    @yshish, @AnLand, @Boleyn and @Snorticus, great job with all the proposed here, was amazing!
    Thanks all!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I am going to add this chimp

    as DBJuv02b, as match proposed with DBJuv02. Can discuss more about this πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator

    I don't know, I don't understand much how it goes here. I was maybe only confused as it was my the very first time I found a chimp without a name.

    If the juvenile was a boy, than I'd like to name it Vili (as Viliam), if it was a girl, than I would like to name it Liana ,as the long plant πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    for now we are not sure about the gender... so in these cases we go for "neutral" names. Vili could be neutral, isn't it? or just for the non English native speakers, like me? πŸ˜›

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator

    OK, let's keep it Vili, it is neutral here too πŸ˜„

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    great!!! thanks a lot

    good job

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator

    (Haha, now the little chimp got name after my partner!!! πŸ˜„)

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Vili fits this chimp well I think!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Hope your partner likes sharing with a funny chimp πŸ˜„

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Vili is a great name! I like it.

    To defend my initial matching proposal: I think, all the tool use videos are a continuous sequence and the juvenile leaves here in ACP00083rm and comes back afterwards with "new material" to work on. We can of course discuss this, but I do see the same juvenile in the whole sequence and a female adult around.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    I believe he's proud of that! πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    You are right AnLand, there are part of the same sequence.

    Here the complete sequence. Great!! well seen @AnLand

    ACP00083z1
    ACP00083z4
    ACP00083z7
    ACP00083zb
    ACP00083vc
    ACP00083vd
    ACP00083ve
    ACP00083vf
    ACP00083ri
    ACP00083rk
    ACP00083rm
    ACP00083rp
    ACP00083vg
    ACP00083vh
    ACP00083vi
    ACP00083vk
    ACP00083w4
    ACP00083w8
    ACP00083wa

    There is not good images of the adult, right? what a pity

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    That one is really nice ACP00083w8, found by @jwidness

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP00083w8 ACP00083wa What an interesting walk. Also seen a bit when Vili first enters in ACP00083gd - leans quite a lot left & then a lot right when walking upright.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    what a interesting chimp! πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    perfect name, I like it!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @vestigial found this video ACP00083tq from a juvenile chimp (he thinks, it's a male) that might be Vili again. I see the same lighter face, ear structure, body build etc.

    enter image description here

    I think that is part of the sequence and might be the same individual: ACP00083tt

    Posted

  • vestigial by vestigial

    Vestigial is a she. Just sayin. heeheehee

    Posted

  • vestigial by vestigial

    Don't know how this one fits but in both the first video I saw and this one the little chimp loves to pick up and carry off food items - ACP00083ql.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to vestigial's comment.

    Sorry, @vestigial. I always try to be vague about gender if I do not know. With you, I was sure (and wrong!). My apologies.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hello!!!
    I am not sire about the match between ACP00083tq and Vili, Vili has more bristling hair on the cheeks.

    BUT!! ACP00083tq could be ACP00083ql, isn't it?

    I am going to add them to the list as:

    Posted

  • yshish by yshish moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    I'm not sure either. I played that b&w video many times trying to compare it with Vili's and I don't see Vili in it 😦 But I'm not good in recognizing individual chimps yet.

    Posted

  • vestigial by vestigial in response to AnLand's comment.

    No apology necessary. I've been called Sir before. 8-P

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to yshish's comment.

    Thanks @yshish.

    mmmm, and what do you think about DBJuv03 and DBJuv03b?

    Sir @vestigial ( πŸ˜› ), @AnLand, @Snorticus, @Boleyn what do you think?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Agree that DBJuv03 and DBJuv03b Are the same chimp. They both have lines of rather sparse hair on the insides of their arms especially the inner elbow, also sparse patches at the right armpit and the top of the right thigh. They have nice symetrically curved light brows, the right ears are shaped the same and the inner ridge is in the same shape & positon in both chimps, bisecting the upper third of the ear. The muzzle is pale and the coloring includes the nose. The body shapes are similar.

    Posted

  • vestigial by vestigial

    I agree with Snorticus that DBJuv03 and DBJuv03b are the same chimp. I think the sparse hair patches and ear ridge are good matches in both videos. Plus, just from a personality standpoint (if you can get that in 15 second videos) this little guy seems very motivated to examine the food offerings in this area and pick them up to take with him. I think in a couple of the videos in this thread you also see him wadging and I don't recall seeing lots of juveniles doing that at any of the sites but I could have just missed it.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,

    Great!. So maybe we can select a name...

    @Boleyn and @Ksigler were proposing a match with DBJuv03b in this thread. ( http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000p/discussions/DCP0000u1r )

    What do you think?
    Can we talk about them there?

    Thanks a lot!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi AnLand,

    I had doubts also about these juveniles, and @Boleyn helped me here, in this thread DBJuv03b?--Eating juvenile at the same place in three sequences (DBJuv03b)

    Hope helps you too πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    If you have doubt about where to post something, feel very free to open a new thread.

    For me is easier to have more small threads and threads super long. But as you prefer. Cheers!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Sorry.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    No worries, is just that we can decide how to do it, if you prefer here is totally ok also. The important think is talk about the chimps, no matter where, and we (you all) are doing great! πŸ˜‰

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    I had already deleted it after your initial complaint, no problem.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    If my comment looked a complaint, I apologize. Was not my intention at all, I just wanted to encourage you to open a new thread when you think is necessary.

    Thanks all

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    This juvenile here looks very much like our well known Vili ACP0007hlc

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hm, this is really hard to compare with this special perspective in the tree, but I actually think that the juvenile in ACP0007hlc is more an infant. Especially the leg in the end is thinner and would suggest to me that it is still being carried most often. Vili looks stronger - and also bigger to me.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all! I also think that one looks smaller...

    Posted