Chimp & See Talk

DBJuv12 and DBJuv13 are the same?

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,
    what do you think about DBJuv12 and DBJuv13, could they be the same? similar body shape, same dark face...

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The faces do look very much alike and also the size fits but I'm not so confident about their bums.

    DBJuv12 looks actually more male to me better seen in video ACP0007kdk

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    whereas DBJuv13 clearly is female

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    The videos are 2,5 months apart, Juv12 3rd of February Juv13 24 April. Would that be enough time to develop a swelling?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    mmm true

    at some point we thought that DBJuv12 could be DBJuv11 (and he is a male) ...

    they three have a very dark face

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Here a link to a paper about female swelling 😉

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    I agree with @Boleyn that DBJuv12 is male, but I don't know if he matches DBJuv11 or not. The testicles don't seem to be as big as those of Juv11, and the brows look slightly different. They both appear to have lighter areas on the upper right thigh/hip, though. It's hard to compare those because of the different lighting and how fast Juv11 moves. :-\

    Speaking of hard to compare, this is a long shot, but what about DBFem02 as a match to DBJuv13? With Fem02, the proximity to the camera could make an older juvenile and younger adult harder to differentiate. Otherwise, the bodies do look similar in size and shape. Face-wise, it appears both have the dark face and eyes, darker mask around the eyes, dark nose, light muzzle/chin, prominent round arched brows, regular sort of low-set ears, a little bit of muttonchop sideburns. The nostrils look different, but people have said in the past that eating can make them look distorted.

    Juv13:

    juv13

    Fem02 (on the left in 1st pic):

    fem02

    fem02

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    mmmm the views are so different. But both have dark faces, big undamaged ears, flat foreheads... I need to watch the videos a few times more. I will be back soon! Thanks @ksigler.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    It's not so far fetched to see similarities in those two. To me especially the ears seem to be quite unique. I can't describe it very well, just that the shape, position and overall look seem to be the same with both of them but different from other chimps here.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks Boleyn for you opinion!

    So, we do the match? @ksigler, do you want to select a name?

    Thanks all!

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Great! I'm guessing since she has a bit of a swelling in ACP0008069, she would be considered an adult? Though she could be around 10-15 years or so and still have a swelling, but be considered juvenile based on these guidelines. Either way, I'd be happy to name this pretty young lady -- Penelope.

    Penelope

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Beautiful name for a beautiful chimp, I like it!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I like it too!!! thanks a lot 😃

    Posted