Female with infant (Clarice & RSInf14)

• by AnLand moderator

  Just as I am having trouble to sort the females with infants here, I am posting this one for the prospective list.

  She seems to be older, with quite some baldness, a gray beard, long, narrow face. Browline rather straight. Small dorsal infant with long sideburns and a light face. Other chimps (with infants) are around, but I cannot recognize any. Found by @Dana23 (only very, very raw similarity, I would see with Emma in this ACP000cenw video).

  ACP000bnjz, ACP000bnk0, ACP000bnk1, ACP000bnk2, two minutes later ACP000bnn3 might still be her.

  

  

  

  Posted July 1, 2016 4:01 PM

• by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.

  ACP000bnk4 Is the final part of this series (rather than ACP000bnk2) Agree that ACP000bnn3 is also her as the chimp sitting down in the upper left is still there in the same position as is the one one the far right side.

  Posted July 1, 2016 10:51 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Added as RSFem14 and RSInf14.

  Posted July 3, 2016 11:40 AM

• by jwidness moderator

  I'll be the first to admit the quality here is pretty iffy, but I'm wondering about the lady from ACP000cmwk as a possible match to RSFem14. Dark face with thick dark lips, thin white beard that goes up and around the corners of the mouth, bald spot is shaped like a landing strip (wide and straight back), smallish infant. The infant in ACP000cmwk seems maybe a bit larger to me, but the video is almost 5 months later, so that would make sense.

  

  

  

  Posted July 4, 2016 9:15 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Yep, I would agree with tagging as RSFem14/RSInf14 because of the similarity of features you mention. Any other thoughts?

  Posted July 10, 2016 12:47 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Okay, not sure if others agree that they are the same or not. I have added these new individuals in ACP000cmwk as RSFem14b and RSInf14b. Please weigh in and let us know what you think! 😃

  Posted July 26, 2016 3:44 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Just wanted to bring this discussion up again and see if people have any more opinions on these videos. Do you think there is a match between RSFem14 and RSFem14b? Or is it too tough to tell due to the video quality?

  Posted September 28, 2016 10:09 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  I am really not sure here. I see the face of RSFem14 longer and narrower (especially where the muzzle begins under the eyes). She also looks somehow older. But I really cannot match her to anyone at the moment. I am also often looking into RSFem14b, but I do not have an idea here either. Somehow, I do not find them very similar ...

  Posted September 28, 2016 6:51 PM

• by Boleyn moderator

  When you freeze the video at a certain point the similarity is much higher: same browline, same bald spot, same nostrils, white beard etc. Also the infant looks much alike especially when riding. There is a lot of hair and a small face. When RSFem14b is walking also her brighter fingers are visible like in RSFem14.

  I like her a lot, she looks so wordly-wise 😃

  RSFem14b

  

  RSFem14

  

  

  Posted October 9, 2016 6:01 PM

• by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

  I looked into that during the weekend to and you're right, if you take a picture from afar, they look similar. If she comes nearer, she suddenly looks so overly young. It's irritating. I do not really get it together, sorry. RSFem14b close to the camera fits more with the other females at Restless Star. I would not disagree between a match of these two, but I still think that RSFem14b could also be somebody else.

  Posted October 10, 2016 6:59 AM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Thanks for your input, @Boleyn and @AnLand. Since there is some uncertainty we can keep them separate.

  Posted October 15, 2016 12:35 PM

• by ksigler moderator

  Thoughts on the proposal in the comments from @charly03 that this lovely pair is Upala & Jonah? To me, the infant looks a little small for Jonah, but otherwise looks similar. The head and bald spot on the mother seem to fit Upala.

  RSFem14 & RSInf14:

  

  Upala & Jonah:

  

  

  Posted October 19, 2016 3:31 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Ooh interesting - thanks to @charly03 and @ksigler. I noticed that RSFem14 has some gray on the sides of the mouth, and Upala also has that, as can be seen in the last screenshot @ksigler posted above, as well as in this screenshot of Upala, thereby supporting the proposal:

  

  Posted October 25, 2016 5:16 PM

• by jwidness moderator

  But Jonah is really a juvenile, he's usually not carried, and often isn't even seen with Upala. RSInf14 is quite a bit smaller.

  Posted October 26, 2016 2:55 AM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Hmm...any other suggestions on this one then?

  Posted October 28, 2016 4:09 PM

• by ksigler moderator

  I'm not sure one way or the other, but just to cover all bases... what about just comparing RSFem14 and Upala? Could it be possible that Upala has 2 kids, older Jonah and younger RS14inf?

  Posted October 31, 2016 11:03 PM

• by jwidness moderator

  @BenCornelius found a video that I think has Fem14 and kid -- ACP000blev

  on the left here, her kid is on the ground in front of her

  

  Posted November 17, 2016 2:40 AM

• by zoogirl1

  

  Better shot of her face.

  Posted November 17, 2016 11:07 PM

• by zoogirl1

  
  Better shot of juve face.

  Both from ACP000blev

  Posted November 17, 2016 11:08 PM

• by zoogirl1

  The video from @BenCornelius definitely matches Fem14 and kid I believe. Lighting is tough to match to Upala. Need a black and white of RSFem14 and RSInf14. Kid looks younger from clips on page one. Hard to say if same. What are the date differences? Could just be older.

  Posted November 17, 2016 11:13 PM

• by AnLand moderator in response to zoogirl1's comment.

  I think we are comparing here not the juvenile to RSInf14, but the infant that she picks up with the camera-reaction and carries away ventrally (at 11 seconds). So, it is indeed a smaller infant, but we do not really see anything from it, but body size.

  Posted November 18, 2016 3:47 AM

• by ksigler moderator

  It's tough matching all these different views. FWIW, I think ACP000blev and RSFem14b look more similar than any others in this thread. To my eye, RSFem14 has a much narrower face, a wider and deeper bald spot, more white around the mouth, and higher set ears than the other two. I know it varies by angle and light, though. :-\

  RSFem14:

  

  ACP000blev:

  

  RSFem14b:

  

  Posted November 19, 2016 8:20 PM

• by lauraklynn moderator

  Maybe I'm seeing things, but is the infant from the original first post missing part of his/her left hand or is it discolored or something? I know we don't get a great look, but it seems odd to me in the glimpses I get in ACP000bnk1

  Posted November 23, 2016 12:34 AM

• by AnLand moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

  Hm, I looked a bit, but I am also not sure. The right hand seems to be OK. From the left hand I see two fingers, but not a full hand. It might be that the infant still has some food in its hand. It's chewing ... I agree it looks a bit hook-like and maybe whiter than the other hand, but I cannot say whether there is actual damage and what kind. It does not look dramatic.

  Posted November 23, 2016 5:48 AM

• by jwidness moderator

  One more to add: ACP000bk4l. At first I thought this might be Pandora, but Pandora has sort of pointy lips, while this female has wide lips like RSFem14/b/blev.

  

  Posted December 2, 2016 1:52 AM

• by jwidness moderator

  Sorry, one more: ACP000bl9m. Medium build female with dark lips, very white beard, smallish dorsal infant.

  

  Posted December 4, 2016 3:14 AM

• by jwidness moderator

  Any more thoughts here?

  Posted February 3, 2017 2:26 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  I would like to weigh in here a bit:

  in my eye, RSFem14 and RSFem14b look the same female; same face shape and coloration. Infants fit too.

  I would however disagree with Upala and Jonah; Johnah is bigger than RSInf14. And Upala´s face looks more square like to me.

  ACP000blev look very much like them too.

  The last two videos posted by @jwidness ( ACP000bk4l and ACP000bl9m ) seem quite reasonable to me, but not 100% sure as they are too far to be certain about it 😕.

  

  So as a summary:

  RSFem14/RSInf14 = RSFem14b/RSInf14b = ACP000blev

  =? ACP000bk4l =? ACP000bl9m

  Posted February 10, 2017 7:23 AM

• by Boleyn moderator

  Thanks @NuriaM for bringing this up again. I couldn't agree more on RSFem14/RSInf14 = RSFem14b/RSInf14b since I always thought this is a match when @jwidness posted RSFem14b 😃

  The other videos for me are just too dark, far away or b/w so I'm not going to make a statement about those.

  Posted February 10, 2017 5:51 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Hmm, okay--So we can name RSFem14/14b if we have some consensus that she is not one of the known females (Upala or otherwise). If anyone is still thinking along those lines, let me know. Otherwise we can name her based on the match in the videos above where she is tagged as 14 and 14b, then include the other videos in the match as well if there is agreement.

  *Thanks for all the input and especially to @NuriaM for the great screenshot compilation!
  !

  Posted February 13, 2017 2:22 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I definitely agree to RSFem14/RSInf14 = ACP000blev and I could agree to RSFem14b in that mix, too. I could get convinced on ACP000bk4l, mostly because of the broad face of the infant. ACP000bl9m is for me just speculation.

  For the Upala / Jonah debate - all arguments have been exchanged and I'm pretty sure it's not them. But I also want to say - just to make it clear for others who are just reading into this discussion - that the screenshot presented in this discussion is Sonas with Jonah. It's not Upala.

  Posted March 5, 2017 10:32 AM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  I emailed one citizen scientist to see if they want to name RSFem14 but I haven't heard back. If anyone is interested in naming her or would like to suggest someone who would be, please let me know! 😃

  Posted April 10, 2017 4:19 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  @bannd67 suggested the name Clarice for RSFem14 so I have added her to the known chimps list. Thanks @bannd67! If someone could check the tagged videos and make sure they are correct and that I didn't miss any, I would be very grateful!

  Posted April 24, 2017 11:28 AM

• by Boleyn moderator

  Maureen as far as I can see you caught them all since there was no general agreement on ACP000bl9m, right?

  Posted April 24, 2017 6:29 PM

• by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

  Thanks @Boleyn! It seems we all think it looks like them in ACP000bl9m, but it's hard to be sure so I didn't confirm it. If, given further consideration, everyone is confident on this, I am happy to confirm. 😃

  Posted April 25, 2017 10:26 AM

• by AnLand moderator

  ACP000bl9l / ACP000bl9m / ACP000bl9n is considered in the google spreadsheet as identifiable and as suggested here by @jwidness this is Clarice with infant. I agree, maybe @Boleyn and @maureenmccarthy as well.

  Posted January 19, 2019 11:17 AM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  As I already mentioned, I am not 100% sure, but if there is another vote in favour, I will confirm it. Thanks

  Posted January 21, 2019 10:14 AM

• by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

  Hm, @jwidness also agreed already, so that makes four votes. 😃

  Posted January 21, 2019 12:18 PM

• by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  Anja, what made you change your mind that this is actually Clarice? I just ask because further up you said it would be speculation.

  I was looking again into it and now made up my mind about this couple but I'd like to hear first your explanation, please. Thanks! 😃

  Posted January 21, 2019 12:35 PM

• by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

  As you can see from my postings during the weekend, I reviewed almost all videos from Restless Star now. So, I have a better feeling about the chimps seen and who might be who. I changed my opinion on her.

  I still think that this is less certain than close-up face views. But it is not more speculative than very many matches that we now did here at Restless Star. I think this is more about consistency in our assignments than anything else.

  I don't know who the reviewers here was, but two persons considered her as identifiable in the google spreadsheet. I did not make the rules.

  Posted January 21, 2019 12:48 PM

• by Boleyn moderator

  Thanks Anja!

  Ok, I agree on Clarice in the clips ACP000bl9l / ACP000bl9m / ACP000bl9n because of the following facts:
  Her long, grayish face, the obviously white beard left and right of her chin, general built and haircolor. The final decision though I made on the infant which has quite a bright muzzle, seen e.g. in confirmed videos ACP000cmwk, ACP000bnk1 and also in the b/w video ACP000bk4l.

  Posted January 21, 2019 1:03 PM

• by NuriaM scientist, moderator

  Thank you ladies, tagged 😃

  Posted January 22, 2019 7:55 AM