Chimp & See Talk

Henry - Very dark male with a clear face shot including family

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Videos ACP000at54 ACP000at55 ACP000at56 ACP000at57

    The series shows a female carrying a ventral infant unfortunately only from behind followed by a massive, friendly looking, very dark male with a black face. Brows are bent at an angle but not rounded, triangular baldness on forehead, right ear nicely rounded with no damage. Quite long hairs at the side of the face and overall is my impression. White hairs in the beard and some in the fur. A white spot underneath the right ear might be just debris. Lower back is a little grayish with a bright triangular shape.

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    female carrying the infant

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    Second female following

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    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    Beautiful! I'm not sure if we have enough of the females yet to assign them prospective IDs, but let's call our handsome male friend CFMale05 ! Can't wait to find a match for this guy!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to northernlimitptv's comment.

    Thanks! I added the females just as a reminder that the male might be more adjoined by them.
    I should also add that there is a juvenile trailing behind the group, only seen from behind as well.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    @Snorticus found this video of an adult chimp ACP000b34m not yet tagged: ACP000b34k ACP000b34p ACP000b34q

    I think he could be a match to CFMale05. The moment he turns to the camera and looks up for a short blink I tried to do a screenshot. The most obvious traits are the bags under the eyes, the vertical line on top of the nose and the knick in the right eyebrow. He's got the same longish fur and also that triangular baldness of which I know is quite common but it fits the one of CFMale05 anyway. 😃

    Unfortunately the stillshots do not show this as well but I hope the sreenshot I made makes it a bit clearer.

    We haven't seen his left ear in the first video but interestingly it also lacks of a horizontal line like his right ear does.

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    I was thinking before that he might be an older chimp. In this new video this impression got even stronger but he still seems to be in good shape compared to other chimps we've been seeing here at Cold-Fire. Looking forward to your opinions! Thanks.

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    I totally agree! Looks like it's your name to choose @Boleyn ! I can't wait to hear what you choose for this super handsome guy. 😄

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yay, am I having a good week! Thank you @northernlimitptv !! This is really an honour to name such a handsome, proud and nice male chimp!

    For once I'd like to choose a rather normal name, hope you're not disappointed: "Henry" It means: Ruler of the house. Thinking of him as the male seen with at least two females I think that's spot on.
    And "the ruler of my house" will also be happy since I promised him for months to name a chimp after him 😄

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Henry is what this old guy looks like he should be named. It's a cool view of him in the sun, isn't it?

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    Henry it is @Boleyn !

    You know, @Snorticus , I'm not so sure he's all that old! That sun isn't very forgiving on his face in the fig videos 😃 I'd like to think of him rather as middle- aged 😉

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Perfect choice. 😃 This guy has such a unique look - I love it.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thanks guys, yes @Snorticus, he looks way cool although his table manners are not beyond reproach 😉

    And @northernlimitptv That's interesting, I also thought he might be older. He really has the look of a wise old man, so I have to reconsider him as a man in his best age 😄

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to northernlimitptv's comment.

    I see what you mean about his age after looking at ACP000at55 Who looks good in harsh light anyway? 😉 What a handsome ear too - so nicely rounded and that inner ridge forming such a nice parallel crescent shape, kind of like half a bagel, very distinctive!

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I haven't been here for two days (and I am not sure how I can manage on the weekend), but does that mean that Henry is also Unclear03/Unclear03b/Unclear01/Itchy Chimp? If yes, how is it possible for this chimp to recover from this bad condition within three months? Or are they just very similar?

    I ask because I had him ACP000b34m in my "itchy chimp" collection.

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    They look so differently and also the same: ACP000b3dl But apparently, body build and baldness is very different. Nevertheless: confusing.

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    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    @AnLand would you mind adding the video numbers as well going with these stillshots?
    I'm sure about the first pic, that's Henry but the other two I need to see the videos in full length to have an opinion about them.

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I think it's mostly the light. But this one in your second post is Henry. He's got some very distinctive features and although he looks bald in the first pic it's not really all baldness 😃

    Edit: @AnLand I wanted to answer on your last entry of course not mine!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Sorry, cannot find all, but ACP000b32b, ACP000b33g (the very thin itchy chimp) - I think they look very much the same, but the body condition (and baldness) is so different. Will post more, if I can find it.

    Posted

  • vestigial by vestigial

    I've had some confusion between Henry and Unclear03, too. I think Henry looks big in the body and more hairy. Both of them have a bony face but Unclear03 looks very thin. Henry also seems to have more hair on his upper back that kind of sticks out.

    I suppose it is possible if he lives in an area where food became plentiful that he could recover some size in three months. According to the zoo nutritionist where I volunteer, wild figs have a lot more protein than the figs we buy in the grocery store so maybe that helped once the figs started to ripen. That could be a bit of a stretch though.

    Posted

  • vestigial by vestigial

    Maybe they are related.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you @AnLand for the videos and and #vestigial for your opinion!

    I'm was rather positive about ACP000b32b and ACP000b32c being Henry. Also ACP000b34m of course because this one led me to the matching proposal. (I do not think that video ACP000b33g (the b/w one) shows the same chimp. Skin color and ear seem to be different.)

    My confusion began as I've seen how thin this chimp actually is. ACP000b3dn The ear and the other features fit exactly but body built and fur look so much different now. So the problem is if all these new fig-eating videos are actually Henry he would have lost a lot of weight in 3 1/2 months. The first description I made was in mid May where he looked very healthy and the fig videos are second half of August.

    This leads me to two possible conclusions:
    Either the fig chimp is not the same as the one captured in May or he is the same but lost a lot of weight to whatever reason that's why we can see him constantly eating.

    Maybe a scientist could help out with an explanation since I'm stumped! Thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Maybe just to add a video from the same scene: ACP000b3lv and ACP000b3ly - this is just four minutes before your second Henry sequence. So, it is really also this sequence I have some trouble with. Not only the other ones from other days.

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    And the scar on the shoulder is seen in many videos. (The chimps here look quite shaken, so that must not be a matching point. Just something to look out for.)

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    And one more thing: the date is I think MM-DD-YYYY - so it is August vs. November 2012. First the poor condition, then the better one.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    thanks @AnLand I'm often confused with this date-thing. So then maybe the figs really added to his health!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    This is all very much confusing: further four minutes later. Same camera, same day. Now in black-and-white mode (the sun has been unsteady as seen in the other two sequences, it is too dark now or is here something seriously mixed up?) ACP000b39q and ACP000b39r August 25, 2012 time: 7.30 (other sequences at 7.23 and 7.26)

    In my interpretation: the itchy chimp, CFUnclear03 and 03b ... the left ear and the white scar on the shoulder ... it might not be the same chimp. There are several minutes in between and until now, I could not find the sequences in between.

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    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    I think @AnLand makes a good point about there being two different chimps here. Compare the bony butt and very thin thighs in August 25, 2012 ACP000b39q to Henry's hind end 9 weeks later.

    ACP000at56 On November 5, 2012 Henry's rear and thighs are much more muscular and robust. I am not a doctor but I'm doubtful that he could have grown that much musculature in 9 weeks.

    Henry's rear and thighs

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    good points @AnLand and @Snorticus thanks!

    I really do not see Henry in the b/w coverage. Henry's face is very dark and quite unique therefore it should also be recognisable in the b/w coverage. There must be two chimps at the same spot. However, in August Henry was still thinner than in November but certainly not as thin as CFUnclear03 and 03b.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    @Boleyn, but you are still sure about the color coverage? All of it or just the sunny ones from August 25th?

    I need to look more in the skinny one and would love to hear an opinion from @northernlimitptv about the potentially very different body condition. I am just curious and a bit confused by this.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Looking in the spreadsheet, it seems all the videos from ACP000b3kk (8/25/2012 at 5:03) to ACP000b3bx (8/25/2012 at 10:28) are Henry. Another chimp shows up about an hour after the last one, but otherwise nothing suggests more than one chimp in the area at the time, and all the videos show a male with a crinkled left ear and a flat face with bags under the eyes. Some of the videos have already been mentioned as possible matches to Henry. I didn't want to list all of them as there are 55 videos in total, but they can be found in the spreadsheet.

    Edit: this encompasses ACP000b34k, ACP000b34m, ACP000b34p, ACP000b34q, confirmed Henry videos. I'm just adding to the sequence.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks @jwidness for looking into it! @AnLand if I only knew!

    I was sure about the chimp in the sunny videos being Henry and @northernlimitptv seemded to be sure as well. But now I just can't say because he looks so wretched in most of the other videos: ACP000b34m not yet tagged: ACP000b34k ACP000b34p ACP000b34q

    I think we'd really needed the opinion of an expert.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    In addition to the 55 videos I mentioned above, I posted lots more to the big confusing thread of males. I can repost here if that's useful?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you @jwidness I'm wowed about your thorougness!

    Probably all the Henry videos do belong in this post so if you could just copy/paste your list in here that would be very nice. Thanks a lot for your tremendous effort! (I would have done it myself but I've lost all the nice formatting...?)

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Ok, these are all the videos from the other thread that I said were Henry.

    Unclear03 (Henry)

    tagged in ACP000b37d, ACP000b37e, ACP000b37f, ACP000b37g

    also in these surrounding videos from the same morning:

    ACP000b39i, ACP000b39j, ACP000b39k, ACP000b39l

    ACP000b3fu, ACP000b3fv, ACP000b3fw, ACP000b3fx

    ACP000b3dy, ACP000b3e1, ACP000b3e4, ACP000b3e5

    ACP000b39m

    ACP000b32z, ACP000b330, ACP000b332, ACP000b334

    ACP000b35u, ACP000b35x, ACP000b360, ACP000b363

    ACP000b3i6

    These span a few hours, but are contiguous.



    Unclear03b (Henry) -- definitely male, you can see his scrotum in ACP000b6k4

    tagged in ACP000b6k3, ACP000b6k4

    also in these contiguous videos:

    ACP000b6a5, ACP000b6a8, ACP000b6aa, ACP000b6ab

    ACP000b6cn, ACP000b6co, ACP000b6cp, ACP000b6cq

    ACP000b66s, ACP000b66t, ACP000b66u, ACP000b66v

    ACP000b6in, ACP000b6io



    Unclear01 (Henry)

    tagged in ACP000b3ga, ACP000b3gb, ACP000b3gc, ACP000b3gd

    also in:

    ACP000b38z, ACP000b389, ACP000b383, ACP000b385

    ACP000b3c2, ACP000b3c3



    the chimp from ACP000b3dn (Henry)

    no temp ID, but in these videos:

    ACP000b3nm, ACP000b3nn, ACP000b3no, ACP000b3np

    ACP000b3in, ACP000b3ir, ACP000b3iu, ACP000b3iy

    ACP000b36b, ACP000b36e, ACP000b36g, ACP000b36h

    ACP000b32r, ACP000b32s, ACP000b32t, ACP000b32u

    ACP000b3di, ACP000b3dj, ACP000b3dl, ACP000b3dn

    ACP000b3eq



    the chimp from ACP000b3ht (Henry)

    no temp ID, but in these videos:

    ACP000b3ea, ACP000b3eb, ACP000b3ec, ACP000b3ed

    ACP000b31z, ACP000b321, ACP000b323, ACP000b325

    ACP000b3hq, ACP000b3hr, ACP000b3hs, ACP000b3ht

    ACP000b36y, ACP000b36z, ACP000b370



    the chimp from ACP000b35l (Henry)

    no temp ID, but in these videos:

    ACP000b3ci, ACP000b3cj, ACP000b3ck, ACP000b3cl

    ACP000b3gi, ACP000b3gj, ACP000b3gk, ACP000b3gl

    ACP000b35h, ACP000b35j, ACP000b35k, ACP000b35l

    ACP000b32v, ACP000b32w, ACP000b32x, ACP000b32y

    ACP000b3fc, ACP000b3ff, ACP000b3fg, ACP000b3fh

    ACP000b3gu, ACP000b3gv, ACP000b3gx, ACP000b3gz



    the chimp from ACP000b6li (Henry)

    no temp ID, but in these videos:

    ACP000b6lf, ACP000b6li, ACP000b6ll, ACP000b6lo

    ACP000b6f7, ACP000b6f8, ACP000b6f9, ACP000b6fa

    ACP000b6bv, ACP000b6bw, ACP000b6bx, ACP000b6by

    ACP000b6j3, ACP000b6j4, ACP000b6j5, ACP000b6j6

    ACP000b67y, ACP000b680, ACP000b682, ACP000b683

    ACP000b6ff, ACP000b6fh, ACP000b6fj

    I ended up going through the spreadsheet looking at the videos that came off that camera and found a total of about 440 clips I think are Henry (including the ones above). Rather than post all of them, there's now a column in the spreadsheet where I noted all the ones I think are Henry.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you so much @jwidness!
    No wonder he looks so well fed three months later - he spent the entire time eating 😄

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think, the majority agress about the identity of the itchy chimp (the thin one in an extremely poor condition). Besides all other traits, the left ear is very unique and often seen (I think @Snorticus made a posting about this, but I cannot find it).

    Unfortunately, we do not see the left ear of the better-shaped Henry to compare. But we see the right one:

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    I don't think that this ear matches the ear of the thinner one, which is also flatter and not well-rounded.

    from ACP000b3bw

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    from ACP000b3c2

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    from ACP000b3gv

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    I will try to hunt down better stills later.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    You're right @AnLand unfortunately this is not the same right ear. We have been all mistaken by these special sunlit pictures of the eating chimp. All the traits seemed to fit but now we obviously have two Henrys... the first healthy one and the second one at the tree eating all the time.

    @northernlimitptv: Here's my suggestion: I would like to give the opportunity to name the eating chimp to somebody else who had a lot of work with him. I myself had almost nothing to do except to come up with the proposal. May we spare the name Henry for the original chimp I started this post with and go back and call him CFMale05 until we find a definite match for him?

    Thanks and sorry for the inconvenience!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    I agree that the first Henry-chimp is not the same as the sunlit-Henry chimp. One ear is so nicely rounded and the other is irregular and the bodies - one robust rear & legs and the other skinny rear & legs. @Boleyn Hopefully we will see first-Henry again soon!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    In addition to the ~440 skinny Henry videos I noted in the spreadsheet from that one camera, I spotted Henry in a video off a different cam: ACP000ba9s, ACP000ba9t, ACP000ba9v (found by @itsJim). Screenshots are all pretty bad as the light is terrible.

    enter image description here

    Tiny waist and hips, skinny legs, dark hair, itchy.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I found another cool double camera thing -- the cam that recorded ACP000b2uc is apparently situated on the normal path at least some chimps take to get to the fig tree where skinny Henry feeds. Thus, we have some help to ID more skinny Henry videos. Here are just a few examples:

    ACP000b2uc (found by @tina_pixie_ )

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    pairs with ACP000b6jj (from sequence found by @zoogirl )

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    ACP000b2wk (found by @Dana23 )

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    pairs with ACP000b6cn (found by @yshish )

    enter image description here

    ACP000b2ne (found by @Henrik87 )

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    pairs with ACP000b37d (found by @tina_pixie_ )

    enter image description here

    (To be clear, these aren't confirmed skinny Henry videos, I'm identifying them as such)

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    I've agreed with the "Skinny Henry" matches over at: https://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000r/discussions/DCP0000sr1

    Now to find the original match-maker!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I do not have much proof here, but the general body build, the triangular balding, broad face and saggy eyes suggest to me that this is Henry: ACP000b648, ACP000b649, ACP000b64a, ACP000b64b

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    My goodness that's a blurry set of videos! My initial impression is to also agree @AnLand , but the ears seem to stick out more than what we've seen in other Henry videos, which creates doubt for me. There does seem to be a bit of a resemblance in the face, however.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.

    His lower back looks grey like Henry's too. Agree this could be him but hard to be certain.

    Posted