Marlyn (Juv03/2spots)-- Juvenile with white, bald spots on back
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by AnLand moderator
I am not sure whether the juvenile here has already an ID, but it (he?) has two bald spots on the back. I see something very similar in the cutie from ACP000efpc (not good preview).
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
And I see that in AVJuv03 too (AVJuv04 is the girl, right?) Try to find a good picture. Best seen, maybe here: ACP000fw46
So, yes: I think they are all the same juvenile (a boy) = AVJuv03 and he belongs to Filou. (At least was seen now three times with him if true. And the juvenile pays close attention to him and there is some interaction. More than I would expect with a male.)
Edit: yes, he is carrying AVJuv03 in ACP000fw3t Very cool!
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
That's him too ACP000fw9m - I cannot see the date (found by @luca-chimp)
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by luca-chimp in response to AnLand's comment.
@Anland --- this is really cool. Always when I saw the three of them, the old guy and the two little ones, I wondered about the long sequences, never with an adult female. This was nothing I knew from RestlessStar. So, do you think there is maybe an adoption from the male to the two buddys? Is that known? Is it normal, that so juveniles are so long time away from mum?
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by AnLand moderator
Yes, this is known. Being together is probably not really a sign for adoption, I see here more interaction that I've seen before between such a young juvenile and a male, though that would not be conclusive. But a male carrying an infant / juvenile is definitely unusual. You can see them both - I think - also here ACP000fw6c (stolen from @Snorticus' collection).
Posted
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by luca-chimp
As Paula mentioned, the Hammer-"Thief" might be the one with the bold patches too
Stolen HammerPosted
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by luca-chimp
And here ACP000fw9l
Posted
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by AnLand moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.
Ah, great. So, more evidence for that precious little guy.
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by AnLand moderator
In this video ACP000e5ku found by @ksigler crosses the little one with the two spots too. And in the previous seconds ACP000e5ks, a big male with a special right ears, white beard and gray back and legs crosses (second chimp looking roughly in camera direction). So, the little one is following him (maybe intentional, if it's true what I am thinking).
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by luca-chimp
and here again with Filou, clear visible the spots ACP000fw91 ACP000fw92
Posted
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by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.
ACP000fw6c I wondered if that wasn't a male when I was collecting adjacent images. That's the first time I've seen a male carrying a youngster - cool!
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by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.
Full series closeup juvenile: ACP000efp9 ACP000efpa ACP000efpb ACP000efpc
Adding that this juvenile also matches #AVJuv02b in ACP000e43n and AVMale02 is seen later in ACP000e43o and ACP000e43p
Both juveniles have a narrow dark black line where their thick pink brow meets in the center and thinning hair on their necks.
ACP000efpa Closeup chimp, right ear
ACP000e43n Compare to #AVJuv02b
ACP000efpa Closeup chimp, right ear with horizontal ridge, also note the grey pigmentation pattern under nose with a line extending down toward the mouth.
ACP000e43n #AVJuv02b Similar grey muzzle pattern below nose - easier to see full screen in Preview 3 - followed by preview pic of similar left ear ridge
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by Snorticus
ACP000fwb1 ACP000fwb3 ACP000fwb5 ACP000fwb7
This looks like him again to me, eating something, maybe a seed pod? - both ears have ridges, strong black line where brows meet, darker eye mask, similar body size.
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by Snorticus
Full series for 2-spot chimp seen: ACP000fw91 ACP000fw92 ACP000fw93 ACP000fw94
ACP000fw9l ACP000fw9m ACP000fw9n ACP000fw9p
ACP000fw9t ACP000fw9u ACP000fw9v ACP000fw9w
ACP000fwbd ACP000fwbe ACP000fwbg ACP000fwbj
Posted
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by Snorticus
Part of the series above - 3 minutes before ACP000efpc
ACP000efs2 ACP000efs6 ACP000efsa ACP000efsc
ACP000efs6 Same deformed ear male is there. Juvenile has grey pigment shape under nose, ridges in both ears that stick out, black line where the thick pink brow meets, same body size. I guess he got bored with nut cracking and moved on to tree climbing π
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
I definitely also think that AVJuv02b is the same juvenile as here (and as AVJuv03), but unfortunately, we cannot see the white spots. The rest of his traits are consistent.
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
That is great!!
I am going to add all this "2 patches" videos to the list, AnLand, do you want to select a name to this juvenile?
What I can no see that clear is the patches in AVJuv03 ( ACP000fw46).
Everything fits, also in the video ACP000fw91 probably are the 3 again (Filou, AVJuv03 and AVjuv04), is just that in the video ACP000fw46 I can not see the patches... Could you tell me which second??
Thanks a lot!!!
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by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.
In my opinion, you can see the patches briefly at 7 seconds in ACP000fw46, when the male is pushing him a bit back and before in ACP000fw44 when the juvenile is sitting down.
An untagged video is ACP000fw41 (belongs in that sequence).
Yes, it is quite dark, but there seems to be really some scars on the little one back.
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
I'm suddenly not sure anymore whether it's a really boy. I cannot see a penis in any video.
Posted
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by luca-chimp
Some to add ACP000fwgt ACP000fwgu ACP000fwgv ACP000fwgw
And with a good view on the back of the adult male (I think its Filou)Posted
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by AnLand moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.
Oh, I really like their interaction. But is the juvenile a bit mangy or are these scars or something? In the black-and-white footage it does not look well groomed ...
Posted
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by luca-chimp
Perhaps the juv has parasites. So often he is scratching itself (I did a lot of hashtagging *scratch for jwidness π
I think its more shaggy than scars. Is it possible, that he is without mum? Perhaps Filou is not the best groomer ...Posted
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by luca-chimp
Ah ..for that ...Im really thinking its s girl
Posted
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by AnLand moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.
If, the juvenile is really carried by the male (and it looks like this), there is quite certainly no mother around anymore. Male chimpanzees are not known to carry infants and juveniles, except they adopt them. They might play and interact, but that's it. So, that would be a thing to look for (in general -> more scratching ... less grooming ... less groomers around ... less company / party size ... or so - I do not know much about this). Well, I do not want to judge Filou. I only got to know him some days ago. He seems to be taking care and starving would be worse than just bad fur/skin I guess.
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
Here a cool video (and research) on the topic "Itching to be popular": http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/28/science/japanese-monkeys-like-to-socialize-even-with-nits-to-pick.html?_r=0
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.
Thanks Luca, yes ACP000fwgt ACP000fwgu ACP000fwgv ACP000fwgw they are Filou and the "2 spot" juvenile.
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by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
Thanks AnLand
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
AnLand, do you want to select a name for the "2 spots" juvenile???
I am not sure either about the gender, so maybe a "neutral" one
π
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
I can see something but is not that obvious than the other videos. But anyway the look the same, always with Filou, same age, same round face... I would match the 2 spots juv with Juv03.
We can try to sort all the videos from this 2 spots juv and AVjuv03, and see when this "2 spots" (injury i guess) appeared.
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
Thank you, @PauDG. I would like to name this juvenile Marlyn.
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Great, thanks AnLand!
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000fwas This looks like Marlyn - two bald spots on back.
Didn't we see this white spot on top of the head in some previous clip also?
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
I did not read everything that has been written last week, so sorry, if that's already known: But @luca-chimp just posted some videos and in ACP000fwhl one can see a penis in Marlyn. So, should be a boy as I thought before. (I also read somewhere that males mostly adopt male infants/juveniles. Is that true?)
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by luca-chimp
Definetively boy π I was long unsure, but in some other clips, when he is working with the nuts and standing up and down you can see it too ...
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000fwa8 Boy part clear here.
Posted
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by Snorticus
More Marlyn & Filou here:
ACP000fwa1 ACP000fwa3 ACP000fwa5 ACP000fwa8
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Great, thanks all! male then
I have added these picture to the chimp list π
Posted
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by Snorticus
Found by @dpellerin and @Boleyn - More Marlyn with two spots here: ACP000fwer ACP000fwes
Series begins with ACP000fwep ACP000fweq
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Thanks Snorticus π
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by AnLand moderator
This ACP000ex8c looks like Marlyn aka "twospots" - well visible.
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by Snorticus
Dated 2014-03-03 at 12:42:33
ACP000esft ACP000esfv ACP000esfx ACP000esg0
This juvenile looks like Marlyn - two white spots on the upper right back and a ridge in the right ear.
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by Snorticus
Dated 2015-03-03 at 12:44:17 - Two minutes later Marlyn is still sitting in the same spot when Kamala licks the camera.
ACP000esem ACP000eseo ACP000eseq ACP000eser
ACP000eseo - Like Marlyn - note curved brows with black center line, pale muzzle, ridges in the ears.
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Thanks a lot @Snorticus, cool sequences
Posted
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by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.
Did you see my comment (new video) too? Do you agree here as well?
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Ey AnLand, sorry, I didn't. I did now, and I agree π
Thank you very much
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by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.
No problem, I thought you might have overlooked it. And @Snorticus' new findings are much more exciting. I totally agree. π
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000edp3 - at 8:35 on 1-27-2015 This looks like Marlyn running after Kamala.
Diagonal ear ridge, dark pigment under the nose, thick light curved brow with dark line in the center, lower lip protrudes.
ACP000efsc - Compare to Marlyn: Diagonal ear ridge, dark pigment under the nose, thick light curved brow, lower lip protrudes.
ACP000edxs -1-27-2015 - at 8:37 Looks like Marlyn scampering around the tree to pester Kamala. Better seen in video.
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
ACP000edp3 could be Marlyn but the one in ACP000edxs has like an narrower/more elongated face, isn't it? For now we don't have the video after ACP000edxs, right? Maybe will appear.
Posted
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by Snorticus
Here is more of the black & white series of Marlyn & Filou that @puddock just found:
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by puddock
I think I've found Marlyn in another clip Image ACP000fwdo I've forgotten how to add pics here but he/she does have two very clear spots on his/her back
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by puddock
Thanks Snorticus - you just got there before me!
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by Snorticus in response to puddock's comment.
oof, I thought you had logged off and I didn't want your find to get lost, sorry
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Thanks for the videos π
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
The juvenile male in ACP000e8m7 should be Marlyn again. The two white spots are well seen, ears and body size fit.
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Great face view! Thanks AnLand π
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by AnLand moderator
ACP000efip (found by @Corcaroli) might be Marlyn again. It's only two minutes before the known sequence with Filou ACP000efs2 etc.) More in ACP000efis / ACP000efiw / ACP000efiy (here both are already tagged)
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Yeah, thanks.
In ACP000efiy (from the same sequence) we see his 2 spots π
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
In this sequence, ACP000fwio
ACP000fwip
ACP000fwiq
ACP000fwir
ACP000fwed
ACP000fwef
ACP000fweh
ACP000fwej
ACP000fwgi
we haven't identified the juvenile that appears with Sabirah, but I think that in the video ACP000fweh we can slightly see one of the Marlyn's back spot, so seems that it's him. Do you agree?Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
That sequence goes until the videos with AVJuv03b, and I wonder if AVJuv03b is actually Marlyn, and it is the same chimp in the whole sequence.
We were doubting between a match with AVJuv03 (now Marlyn) or AVJuv02b (that we also thought it was Marlyn or Sughi).
I say that:
- the juvenile in ACP000fweh,
- AVJuv03b ( ACP000fwgx, ACP000fwgy, ACP000fwgz, ACP000fwh0) and
- AVJuv02b ( ACP000e43n)
are Marlyn. What do you think?
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
This should be Marlyn, the 2 spots are still a bit visible.
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
I agree with ACP000fweh ACP000e43n and ACP000efkt beeing Marlyn but I'm still convinced that AVJuv03b is not Marlyn but Shugi.
The muzzle looks different, the mask is darker and the nose brighter and wider than Marlyns. Marlyn is dark around the nose, AVJuv03b (and Shugi) are not or at least not as much as Marlyn.
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
Many thanks Heidi. I am going to add in the chimp list the match proposal between AVJuv03b and Shugi. For now, as there are different opinions, we leave AVJuv03b as a prospective chimp π
Posted
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by JoanaPereira
Hi,
I would say that AVJuv03b and AVJuv02b are not Marlyn, as we canΒ΄t see any of the spots, not even the one in the head, which would be visible on the videos if they were Marlyn.. However, I canΒ΄t be sure either that AVJuv03b is Shugi..
Sorry for not being able to help much.Posted
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by AnLand moderator in response to JoanaPereira's comment.
Hi! I just posted about AVJuv03b here. I am pretty sure that it is Kamala.
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
Also about AVJuv03b: Marlyn and Shugi are male. This is a female juvenile. [For Shugi visible in ACP000fw73]
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
For AVJuv02b - I still see Marlyn here. He has a white dot on the head and the ears looks exactly the same. Brows fit, size fits.
Posted
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
AVJuv03b : I am not sure that is a female
AVJuv02b: I also think is Marlyn
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
ACP000ex7u - the juvenile male with the back spots should be Marlyn. My guess is Bea on the right and Kamala on the left, but I am not sure here.
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Agree with Marlyn here and the one on the left following slowly is likely Kamala. Can't tell about the others though.
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by lauraklynn moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
For ACP000ex7u I also agree with Marlyn. I was wondering if Bea is the one looking up and lingering; perhaps it's in my head, but she seems to waddle a bit, especially in ACP000ex7y? Then again, her face looks similar to Kamala's, so I am torn. π
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
The male juvenile here on the left (at 9 seconds) in ACP000g2qa is Marlyn, cf. facial view and right ear.
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by Boleyn moderator
Yes to Marlyn!
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by AnLand moderator
First chimp crossing in ACP000g4dq looks like Marlyn (face coloration and left ear).
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Yes Marlyn! The right ear fits as well, better seen in video. π
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by PauDG scientist, moderator
.
Posted