Chimp & See Talk

Marlyn (Juv03/2spots)-- Juvenile with white, bald spots on back

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I am not sure whether the juvenile here has already an ID, but it (he?) has two bald spots on the back. I see something very similar in the cutie from ACP000efpc (not good preview).

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    And I see that in AVJuv03 too (AVJuv04 is the girl, right?) Try to find a good picture. Best seen, maybe here: ACP000fw46

    So, yes: I think they are all the same juvenile (a boy) = AVJuv03 and he belongs to Filou. (At least was seen now three times with him if true. And the juvenile pays close attention to him and there is some interaction. More than I would expect with a male.)

    Edit: yes, he is carrying AVJuv03 in ACP000fw3t Very cool!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    That's him too ACP000fw9m - I cannot see the date (found by @luca-chimp)

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp in response to AnLand's comment.

    @Anland --- this is really cool. Always when I saw the three of them, the old guy and the two little ones, I wondered about the long sequences, never with an adult female. This was nothing I knew from RestlessStar. So, do you think there is maybe an adoption from the male to the two buddys? Is that known? Is it normal, that so juveniles are so long time away from mum?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Yes, this is known. Being together is probably not really a sign for adoption, I see here more interaction that I've seen before between such a young juvenile and a male, though that would not be conclusive. But a male carrying an infant / juvenile is definitely unusual. You can see them both - I think - also here ACP000fw6c (stolen from @Snorticus' collection).

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    As Paula mentioned, the Hammer-"Thief" might be the one with the bold patches too
    Stolen Hammer

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    And here ACP000fw9l

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.

    Ah, great. So, more evidence for that precious little guy.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    In this video ACP000e5ku found by @ksigler crosses the little one with the two spots too. And in the previous seconds ACP000e5ks, a big male with a special right ears, white beard and gray back and legs crosses (second chimp looking roughly in camera direction). So, the little one is following him (maybe intentional, if it's true what I am thinking).

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    and here again with Filou, clear visible the spots ACP000fw91 ACP000fw92

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.

    ACP000fw6c I wondered if that wasn't a male when I was collecting adjacent images. That's the first time I've seen a male carrying a youngster - cool!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.

    Full series closeup juvenile: ACP000efp9 ACP000efpa ACP000efpb ACP000efpc

    Adding that this juvenile also matches #AVJuv02b in ACP000e43n and AVMale02 is seen later in ACP000e43o and ACP000e43p

    Both juveniles have a narrow dark black line where their thick pink brow meets in the center and thinning hair on their necks.

    ACP000efpa Closeup chimp, right ear

    enter image description here

    ACP000e43n Compare to #AVJuv02b

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    ACP000efpa Closeup chimp, right ear with horizontal ridge, also note the grey pigmentation pattern under nose with a line extending down toward the mouth.

    enter image description here

    ACP000e43n #AVJuv02b Similar grey muzzle pattern below nose - easier to see full screen in Preview 3 - followed by preview pic of similar left ear ridge

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    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000fwb1 ACP000fwb3 ACP000fwb5 ACP000fwb7

    This looks like him again to me, eating something, maybe a seed pod? - both ears have ridges, strong black line where brows meet, darker eye mask, similar body size.

    ACP000fwb5

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Full series for 2-spot chimp seen: ACP000fw91 ACP000fw92 ACP000fw93 ACP000fw94

    ACP000fw9l ACP000fw9m ACP000fw9n ACP000fw9p

    ACP000fw9t ACP000fw9u ACP000fw9v ACP000fw9w

    ACP000fwbd ACP000fwbe ACP000fwbg ACP000fwbj

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Part of the series above - 3 minutes before ACP000efpc

    ACP000efs2 ACP000efs6 ACP000efsa ACP000efsc

    ACP000efs6 Same deformed ear male is there. Juvenile has grey pigment shape under nose, ridges in both ears that stick out, black line where the thick pink brow meets, same body size. I guess he got bored with nut cracking and moved on to tree climbing πŸ˜‰

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I definitely also think that AVJuv02b is the same juvenile as here (and as AVJuv03), but unfortunately, we cannot see the white spots. The rest of his traits are consistent.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    That is great!!

    I am going to add all this "2 patches" videos to the list, AnLand, do you want to select a name to this juvenile?

    What I can no see that clear is the patches in AVJuv03 ( ACP000fw46).

    Everything fits, also in the video ACP000fw91 probably are the 3 again (Filou, AVJuv03 and AVjuv04), is just that in the video ACP000fw46 I can not see the patches... Could you tell me which second??

    Thanks a lot!!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    In my opinion, you can see the patches briefly at 7 seconds in ACP000fw46, when the male is pushing him a bit back and before in ACP000fw44 when the juvenile is sitting down.

    An untagged video is ACP000fw41 (belongs in that sequence).

    Yes, it is quite dark, but there seems to be really some scars on the little one back.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I'm suddenly not sure anymore whether it's a really boy. I cannot see a penis in any video.

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    Some to add ACP000fwgt ACP000fwgu ACP000fwgv ACP000fwgw
    And with a good view on the back of the adult male (I think its Filou)

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.

    Oh, I really like their interaction. But is the juvenile a bit mangy or are these scars or something? In the black-and-white footage it does not look well groomed ...

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    Perhaps the juv has parasites. So often he is scratching itself (I did a lot of hashtagging *scratch for jwidness πŸ˜ƒ
    I think its more shaggy than scars. Is it possible, that he is without mum? Perhaps Filou is not the best groomer ...

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    Ah ..for that ...Im really thinking its s girl

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.

    If, the juvenile is really carried by the male (and it looks like this), there is quite certainly no mother around anymore. Male chimpanzees are not known to carry infants and juveniles, except they adopt them. They might play and interact, but that's it. So, that would be a thing to look for (in general -> more scratching ... less grooming ... less groomers around ... less company / party size ... or so - I do not know much about this). Well, I do not want to judge Filou. I only got to know him some days ago. He seems to be taking care and starving would be worse than just bad fur/skin I guess.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Here a cool video (and research) on the topic "Itching to be popular": http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/28/science/japanese-monkeys-like-to-socialize-even-with-nits-to-pick.html?_r=0

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to luca-chimp's comment.

    Thanks Luca, yes ACP000fwgt ACP000fwgu ACP000fwgv ACP000fwgw they are Filou and the "2 spot" juvenile.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks AnLand

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    AnLand, do you want to select a name for the "2 spots" juvenile???

    I am not sure either about the gender, so maybe a "neutral" one

    πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I can see something but is not that obvious than the other videos. But anyway the look the same, always with Filou, same age, same round face... I would match the 2 spots juv with Juv03.

    We can try to sort all the videos from this 2 spots juv and AVjuv03, and see when this "2 spots" (injury i guess) appeared.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Thank you, @PauDG. I would like to name this juvenile Marlyn.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Great, thanks AnLand!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000fwas This looks like Marlyn - two bald spots on back.

    enter image description here

    Didn't we see this white spot on top of the head in some previous clip also?

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I did not read everything that has been written last week, so sorry, if that's already known: But @luca-chimp just posted some videos and in ACP000fwhl one can see a penis in Marlyn. So, should be a boy as I thought before. (I also read somewhere that males mostly adopt male infants/juveniles. Is that true?)

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    Definetively boy πŸ˜‰ I was long unsure, but in some other clips, when he is working with the nuts and standing up and down you can see it too ...

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000fwa8 Boy part clear here.

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    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    More Marlyn & Filou here:

    ACP000fwa1 ACP000fwa3 ACP000fwa5 ACP000fwa8

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Great, thanks all! male then

    I have added these picture to the chimp list πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Found by @dpellerin and @Boleyn - More Marlyn with two spots here: ACP000fwer ACP000fwes

    Series begins with ACP000fwep ACP000fweq

    ACP000fwer

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    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks Snorticus πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    This ACP000ex8c looks like Marlyn aka "twospots" - well visible.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Dated 2014-03-03 at 12:42:33

    ACP000esft ACP000esfv ACP000esfx ACP000esg0

    This juvenile looks like Marlyn - two white spots on the upper right back and a ridge in the right ear.

    ACP000esft

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    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Dated 2015-03-03 at 12:44:17 - Two minutes later Marlyn is still sitting in the same spot when Kamala licks the camera.

    ACP000esem ACP000eseo ACP000eseq ACP000eser

    ACP000eseo - Like Marlyn - note curved brows with black center line, pale muzzle, ridges in the ears.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks a lot @Snorticus, cool sequences

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Did you see my comment (new video) too? Do you agree here as well?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Ey AnLand, sorry, I didn't. I did now, and I agree πŸ˜‰

    Thank you very much

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    No problem, I thought you might have overlooked it. And @Snorticus' new findings are much more exciting. I totally agree. πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000edp3 - at 8:35 on 1-27-2015 This looks like Marlyn running after Kamala.

    Diagonal ear ridge, dark pigment under the nose, thick light curved brow with dark line in the center, lower lip protrudes.

    enter image description here

    ACP000efsc - Compare to Marlyn: Diagonal ear ridge, dark pigment under the nose, thick light curved brow, lower lip protrudes.

    enter image description here

    ACP000edxs -1-27-2015 - at 8:37 Looks like Marlyn scampering around the tree to pester Kamala. Better seen in video.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    ACP000edp3 could be Marlyn but the one in ACP000edxs has like an narrower/more elongated face, isn't it? For now we don't have the video after ACP000edxs, right? Maybe will appear.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Here is more of the black & white series of Marlyn & Filou that @puddock just found:

    ACP000fwdm

    ACP000fwdo

    ACP000fwdq

    Posted

  • puddock by puddock

    I think I've found Marlyn in another clip Image ACP000fwdo I've forgotten how to add pics here but he/she does have two very clear spots on his/her back

    Posted

  • puddock by puddock

    Thanks Snorticus - you just got there before me!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to puddock's comment.

    oof, I thought you had logged off and I didn't want your find to get lost, sorry

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks for the videos πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    The juvenile male in ACP000e8m7 should be Marlyn again. The two white spots are well seen, ears and body size fit.

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    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Great face view! Thanks AnLand πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000efip (found by @Corcaroli) might be Marlyn again. It's only two minutes before the known sequence with Filou ACP000efs2 etc.) More in ACP000efis / ACP000efiw / ACP000efiy (here both are already tagged)

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Yeah, thanks.

    In ACP000efiy (from the same sequence) we see his 2 spots πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    In this sequence, ACP000fwio
    ACP000fwip
    ACP000fwiq
    ACP000fwir
    ACP000fwed
    ACP000fwef
    ACP000fweh
    ACP000fwej
    ACP000fwgi
    we haven't identified the juvenile that appears with Sabirah, but I think that in the video ACP000fweh we can slightly see one of the Marlyn's back spot, so seems that it's him. Do you agree?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    That sequence goes until the videos with AVJuv03b, and I wonder if AVJuv03b is actually Marlyn, and it is the same chimp in the whole sequence.

    We were doubting between a match with AVJuv03 (now Marlyn) or AVJuv02b (that we also thought it was Marlyn or Sughi).

    I say that:

    are Marlyn. What do you think?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    This should be Marlyn, the 2 spots are still a bit visible.

    ACP000efkt

    one

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I agree with ACP000fweh ACP000e43n and ACP000efkt beeing Marlyn but I'm still convinced that AVJuv03b is not Marlyn but Shugi.

    The muzzle looks different, the mask is darker and the nose brighter and wider than Marlyns. Marlyn is dark around the nose, AVJuv03b (and Shugi) are not or at least not as much as Marlyn.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Many thanks Heidi. I am going to add in the chimp list the match proposal between AVJuv03b and Shugi. For now, as there are different opinions, we leave AVJuv03b as a prospective chimp πŸ˜‰

    Posted

  • JoanaPereira by JoanaPereira

    Hi,

    I would say that AVJuv03b and AVJuv02b are not Marlyn, as we canΒ΄t see any of the spots, not even the one in the head, which would be visible on the videos if they were Marlyn.. However, I canΒ΄t be sure either that AVJuv03b is Shugi..
    Sorry for not being able to help much.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to JoanaPereira's comment.

    Hi! I just posted about AVJuv03b here. I am pretty sure that it is Kamala.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Also about AVJuv03b: Marlyn and Shugi are male. This is a female juvenile. [For Shugi visible in ACP000fw73]

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    For AVJuv02b - I still see Marlyn here. He has a white dot on the head and the ears looks exactly the same. Brows fit, size fits.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    AVJuv03b : I am not sure that is a female

    AVJuv02b: I also think is Marlyn

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000ex7u - the juvenile male with the back spots should be Marlyn. My guess is Bea on the right and Kamala on the left, but I am not sure here.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Agree with Marlyn here and the one on the left following slowly is likely Kamala. Can't tell about the others though.

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    For ACP000ex7u I also agree with Marlyn. I was wondering if Bea is the one looking up and lingering; perhaps it's in my head, but she seems to waddle a bit, especially in ACP000ex7y? Then again, her face looks similar to Kamala's, so I am torn. πŸ˜•

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    The male juvenile here on the left (at 9 seconds) in ACP000g2qa is Marlyn, cf. facial view and right ear.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yes to Marlyn!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    First chimp crossing in ACP000g4dq looks like Marlyn (face coloration and left ear).

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yes Marlyn! The right ear fits as well, better seen in video. πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    .

    Posted