Chimp & See Talk

Jojo-Crann, juv--Tagging fear grimace?

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Thinking this is a fear grimace that the smaller young chimp is showing here - upper & lower teeth uncovered, corners of lips pulled up and back - may we tag that?

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    haha @snorticus give me five 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I've been using #grin.

    Edit: maybe your question wasn't what tag to use, but rather confirming that it is a fear grin?

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Yep I would agree that it's a fear grimace and we also see it in the previous video ACP000emip when the little grimacer enters the frame so we are probably missing some of the social context. 😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to jwidness's comment.

    I was looking for both - so #grin is the tag to use then? It sounds so innocuous for noting a fear response.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    I don't have a strong preference for grin over grimace, we could easily switch it at this point. It didn't really occur to me that most people have a positive association with the word grin until you said something.

    How about this: if no one says they strongly prefer grin over grimace, tomorrow I'll switch the tag group to grimace?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    I had only recently realized that the "funny chimps" in pop culture images are all doing a fear grimace because I googled to look at chimp facial expressions. That's why I like the tag "grimace" better. Now I feel bad about all those "funny" chimp cards I sent my nieces & nephews through the years 😕

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    Hey Snorticus, it was disturbing for me too when i found out - but what's important is to spread the word about it now that you know! For example just today this awful organization once again took juvenile chimps to see a movie for publicity http://www.kmov.com/story/32381349/chimpanzees-watch-new-tarzan-movie-at-myrtle-beach-movie-theater and we know this has really bad impacts for their conservation: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0026048

    thanks for making the connection and pointing it out! 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    Ok, I think we're all switched over to grimace -- tag away!

    And, ugh, those poor chimps at the movies. : ( Why are news organizations even covering that?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to jwidness's comment.

    Thanks for reconsidering that 😃

    Humans are really oblivious in regard to the perspective of animals sometimes. Our 'big brains' don't always get it right, but I think we're gradually getting better.

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    i think so too! Whenever i get a bit of the feeling of weltschmerz i re-watch this TED talk and it reminds me we are making progress! https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_and_rebecca_newberger_goldstein_the_long_reach_of_reason?language=en

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to MimiA's comment.

    That was an elegant distillation of human progress - good link, Mimi.

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    i'm glad you liked it - i think i have watched it about 300 times 😃

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  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Moved to AV-15.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I also think that the bigger male juvenile here in ACP000emiq and ACP000emir might be Jojo-Crann. I cannot see Makena around, but these brows and body size (and maleness) point me to Jojo-Crann. For the harassed little one, I thought about Jacko (because of size, fluffy sideburns, and dark eye mask), but I cannot get a clear view.

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  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks for moving the discussion.

    I agree with Jojo-Crann, but I am not sure at all about who could be the other juvenile....

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  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I will check some other videos of quarreling juveniles I saved for comparison. Maybe tomorrow 😃

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  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The videos I thought might be a clue to this scene didn't give me a real answer. Maybe one of you can find some context?
    ACP000g4dk ACP000g4dl ACP000g4dm ACP000g4bz

    What I can offer is a slightly better view of the second juvenile from ACP000emiq and ACP000emir discussed here.

    enter image description here

    Jojo-Crann at the left. @AnLand proposed Jacko for the second one. There is a possibility to that and maybe here could be the link to the other videos. I think one of the juvs in the other clips might also be Jacko: very dark mask, fluffy sideburns.

    Juv from ACP000g4bz

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi!

    In ACP000emiq, could be Jacko but it is hard to be sure, maybe the fluffy cheeks hair is because of the screaming/fear face... I don't know, sorry. 😦

    In the other sequence ( ACP000g4dj, ACP000g4dk, ACP000g4dl, ACP000g4dm) there are 3 juveniles without ID. They move a lot!! but could you try to say which one do you think could be Jacko.

    Thanks Heidi!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Sorry Paula, I have no clue. They all have dark masks and the perspective doesn't allow for a real educated guess 😕

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  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Juveniles!! :S

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  • JoanaPereira by JoanaPereira

    Hi to all,

    Regarding @PauDG question, I think that Jacko could be the one being scared by the other juvenile in @ACP000g4dl. He has the same size, black mask, fluffy hair on the sides of the head..

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks Joana. I am not sure about the these juveniles :S

    I would leave them unidentified unless it's completely clear for some of you

    Posted