Chimp & See Talk

(**pending**)Sorting out AV juveniles 02, 02b, 03b and more

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Half a year ago @Mercury82 proposed a match between ACP000fwgx ACP000fwgy (now AVJuv03b) and AVJuv02 and/or AVJuv02b in this thread.

    Paula more or less agreed but added the youngster as AVJuv03b instead of AVJuv02c as she wanted to do initially because there was also a discussion of those beeing AVJuv03 (now Marlyn).

    I think they were right with them all being the same except for Marlyn, because 02, 02b and 03b do not have any bald patches on their backs as Marlyn has.

    In the discussion about Baba and friends @NuriaM agreed on AVJuv02 and 02b beeing the same. So far so good.

    I think we can add 03b to this match as well, partly because it was already half decided on half a year ago in @Mercury82's thread and partly because s/he really looks the same. However I can't see the bald spot on the right wrist but this might be due to the dark video.

    Juv02
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    Juv03b
    enter image description here

    In the identifiable chimp list I found another sequence of which I'm sure it's again AVJuv02 etc.: ACP000e5iv ACP000e5iw ACP000e5ix ACP000e5iy. Same round brows, dark mask, bright muzzle and nose, narrow face and undisturbed hair. In ACP000e5iw at sec 14 we can see a brighter spot on the right wrist but I don't know if this is really a permanent thing with this juvenile or only seen when it bends the wrist downwards. The ears show the same downward ridge like Juv02. What I think is also an important fact is that the same female (proposed as match to AVFem03 here) shows up in the last video of the sequence interacting with the juvenile. Described by @Snorticus in the rolling rock juvenile thread.

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    I'm lookign forward to any feedbacks and comments, thanks!!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Agreed: #AVJuv02 = #AVJuv02b = #AVJuv03b = ACP000e5iv ACP000e5iw ACP000e5ix ACP000e5iy 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Paula, sorry may I bring this one to your attention as well? I think we could solve yet another case if you're in on it? Thanks!

    (It all comes from "cleaning up" my followed discussions...) 😕

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi @Boleyn

    according my notes I think (or at least I thought) that AVJuv03b = AVJuv03 (Marlyn) = AVJuv02b.

    What do you think? can they be Marlyn?

    I will check again the threads where we talk about them and I will come back 😉

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Hi Paula, no AvJuv03b is not Marlyn, he's got no bald patches on his back and he's considered to be the kid of AVFem03 whereas Marlyn is with Filou.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi @Boleyn.

    We do not know if the patches on Marlyn's back are permanent, could be a scar or a temporal wound.

    AVJuv03b was called this way because we thought could be AVJuv03 (Marlyn), but none of them have been seen with AVFem03.

    Who has been seen with AVFem03 is AVJuv02 (in the videos ACP00fw71 ans 72).

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Hi Paula
    ah, sorry, mixed those numbers up again, of course it was 02 seen with female 03.

    Maybe Marlyn's patches are not permanent but on January 4th 2015 they were still clearly visible (although it's quite dark) in this video ACP000fwfg which is a confirmed Marlyn video.

    Marlyn with Sabirah:
    enter image description here

    The videos of AVJuv03b are from January 8th only 4 days later. ACP000fwgx ACP000fwgy but no bald patches visible. No good still in this position but the video is quite clear.

    enter image description here

    In this post from @Mercury82 AV Juv02 or 02b he made the first proposal for AVJuveniles 02, 02b and ACP000fwgx ACP000fwgy (now 03b). In your first entry in this post you initially wanted to give this juvenile the tempID 02c because he looked more alike 02 and 02b than 03 (which is now Marlyn). But in an additional post you agreed of them being all the same including 03 Marlyn. In the meantime we know that Marlyn is another one but the 02, 02 and 03b are still open. All comparisons I've done already at the beginning of this thread.

    When loking at the backside of 03b in ACP000fwgx I even have the impression that this could be a girl. What do you think?

    enter image description here

    Compared to Marlyn's backside. His tuft also seems to be brighter.

    enter image description here

    Thanks for looking into it again! 😃

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi Boleyn, I am still confused.

    We would need to check from when to when the Marlyn's patches are visible and see which adults are around those juveniles. I find them very very similar, so any help will be welcome!

    For now we can add the juvenile from ACP000e5iy to the chimp list because does not have yet a temporal name.

    I have seen that in the video ACP000e5iy there is also a female, that I think is a match with AVFem03 (see this thread ) so in this case I would agree that the juvenile is AVJuv02.

    I am going to add the female from ACP000e5iy as AVFem03c and the juvenile as AVJuv02c. If you agree we could start matching AVJuc02c ( ACP000e5iy) with AVJuv02 and continue talking about AVJuv02b and 3b.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    That's a good compromise, Paula, let's take it from there 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I agree, that's very helpful. I will look into these issues (female and juvenile) in the next days again, too,

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    great. @Bolyen I think you were the first proposing the match between AVJuv02c and AVJuv02. would you like to select a name? 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Thanks a lot, Paula. It was @Mercury82 who first proposed a match between 02 and 02b, and many others were involved in the discussions around 02 like @Snorticus, @lucachimp and others. But since we are matching now 02 and 02c I think I can gladly take the honour of naming this cute little chimp.

    It's such a busy little fellow thus I'd like to name him/her Shugi a (self-made) short form of the Swaheli word for busy "shugulini" 😃

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks!

    Posted