Chimp & See Talk

Desta & Azize--Female sitting behind Willa on the log possible match to AVFem08?

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The female sitting behind Willa in the following videos does not have a temp ID yet. ACP000emk2 ACP000emk4 ACP000emk6 ACP000emk7 then ACP000emjs ACP000emjt ACP000emju ACP000emjv

    She has a dark face with a grey beard, wide nose, greyish brows only a little bent, round left ear, her right ear has a little notch in the uppermost part. She has dark hair and dark nipples. Her forehead is bald or has only sparse hair with a small brighter spot on her crest which is probably some debris since it doesn't look natural. In ACP000emjs we can see the irregularity in the right ear from a different angle and that she is probably pretty bald.

    New female

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    There are also infants or small juveniles around. The one entering the scene in ACP000emlo and stopping in front of Willa might belong to her. In ACP000emk4 it descends the log at the left and enters it again in ACP000emk6 Then it sits down a few meters behind the unknown female. Willa's infant is between the two adults and is smaller.

    enter image description here

    In ACP000emju we see her interesting backside with at least three bald spots two on the shoulders one on the right side of the back. Also interesting is her right foot. I have the impression that the big toe sticks out at an unusual wide angle.

    enter image description here

    Of AVFem08 we only have two videos: ACP000emm9 ACP000emmc The features seem to fit those of the new female. I think also her big toe looks somehow a bit odd when she walks.

    enter image description here

    To discuss a possible match we may also include the infants. First AVInf08 belonging to AVfem08 and then the one I consider to belong to the new female. When you follow the videos closely and in the right order I think you'll come to the same conclusion. Both have these very prominent eyebrows and a big nose which is a little darker than the muzzle.

    AVJuv08

    enter image description here

    new Juvenile from ACP000emlo:

    enter image description here

    Female from ACP000emi7 and juvenile
    When thinking about that akward right foot/thumb I remembered the videos ACP000emi5 and especially ACP000emi7 we see a female with the same traits with something hanging from her right foot. In the comments was this supposed to be part of a snare. This might explain the looks of the foot now and thus I think it might be her as well. In the video we can also see a little irregularity in her right ear. The juvenile again has exactly the same look with bushy brows and fleshy nose.

    enter image description here

    Looking forward to your opinions! 😄

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Awesome!

    I agree with you that this new female looks like AVFem08. Even the juveniles fit.

    In order to ease this match discussion, I will give them a temp. ID: #AVFem16 and #AVJuv12 .

    As for the last video, hmmm... I have the feeling that the juvenile is still an infant (a late infant) and the video is only some days before; in the next video ACP000emi9, when I do stop-motion at the very beginning at sec. 2 approx, I can´t see AVFem16´s patched back; what do you think?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Good point, her back (in ACP000emi9) looks neat with all hair where it belongs. So she's somebody else then. I was more or less jumping to conclusions because of that trap or whatever it is.

    What do you say about AVFem16's right big toe? Is this within normal size and angle or could this be kind of an injury?

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Hi @Boleyn -- I took a look at the right big toe and I don't see anything abnormal about it. If there is a particular shot of it where you notice this, could you make a screenshot? Overall it looks pretty normal to me, but maybe I am missing something!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thanks @maureenmccarthy , I see a normal toe too, but @Boleyn it would be nice to have a closer look 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thanks for looking into it Maureen and Nuria.
    In ACP000emju when AVFem16 walks away it looks somehow awkward as if she almost stumbled over her right toe.

    And in ACP000emmc (AVFem08) the toe looks huge as if it was swollen. The toe on her left foot is thinner and less bent outward I have the impression. I know objects closer to the camera look bigger than they are but it still looks odd to me.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Look, I tried to do a collage (I love it!!) with chimp toes...the image is not the best, but it might help a bit.

    AVFem08´s toe looks bigger, but I think it´s a movement effect; look at Filou´s toe for comparison...I think these are all normal toes, what do you think?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    LOL thanks for the collage @NuriaM - that's quite convincing. I was never aware that chimps have such big toes which are actually more looking like thumbs. Evolution took this away from us humans 😃

    Another question: what programm (or app) do you use for the collages? It must be one which is not as time-consuming as Photoshop, I guess...

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I like collages too!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,

    I agree with the match between AVFem16 and AVFem08.

    Boleyn, do you want to choose a name? Many thanks 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you so much Paula, such a lovely lady!

    It's my pleasure so let me name her "Desta" which means pleasure in an African language. (I couldn't find out which one thoug 😃)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    gorgeous 😃

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I like it too! thanks Boleyn 😉

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,
    I am wondering if that female could be Desta too. I think I see the notch on the right ear and the juvenile she is carrying is quite big, so maybe in the other videos she doesn't carry him/her

    What do you think?

    ACP000g4du

    one
    (better see the video)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    I think she is Desta, I see a small notch on the top of her right ear too:

    Desta ( ACP000emmc )

    enter image description here

    and this new one ( ACP000g4du )

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yes I agree, this is very likely Desta. She has the same baldness pattern, greyish beard and brows, wide nose and slightly open mouth. Above all the little one's brows are quite unique: very high and thick and the same fleshy nose as in ACP000emm9. It's 4 months before the log-scene so I think it's ok that he's been carried. The size and weight of the juvenile is probably the reason for the bald patches on her back. 😃

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    So, we have a new match, between AVJuv08 and that one from ACP000g4du!

    Boleyn, do you want to choose a name?

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you so much, Paula!

    May I offer this opportunity again to another volunteer since I just had the pleasure to name his/her mother? I'm sure you will find a member who deserves to name this lovely infant/juvenile, e.g. @corcaroli - he's so diligent and tags every small grey duiker 😉

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    It is ok with me, thanks a lot Boleyn 😉

    So @corcaroli , which name would like for that juvenile?

    Posted

  • Corcaroli by Corcaroli

    I would suggest Aziza if it is female and Azizo if it is male.

    Regards, Corcaroli

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    That's a lovely name @corcaroli I really like it - and both options! 😉

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to Corcaroli's comment.

    Thanks @Corcaroli,

    but we don't know if this juvenile is a female or a male, at least not yet.

    When we are not sure about the gender, we try to select something "neutral", but anyway if you have any preference for any of those names, will be ok. Or maybe Azize? 😉

    As you prefer.

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Paula, @corcaroli told me that Azize is fine with him, so you can go on! Thanks. I still think this is a wonderful name. 😃

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I like it a lot too!

    Thanks @Boleyn and @corcaroli 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I am wondering whether the first female and infant in ACP000e41f are Desta and Azize - mostly based on the right ear of the female and the infant. But I think, the traits fit.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Yes! those are Desta and Azize, I agree.

    I am thinking that Azize just has a weird/marked eyebrows, and not a scar in the left one, because in this video looks like (s)he has the scar in the right eyebrow.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    What do you think about those ones? Desta and Azize?

    ACP000flcr

    (still images are not very clear)

    The big juvenile is Jojo-Crann, Makena & AVInf02 appear in the next video ACP000flcz

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hm, I could be on board here. I cannot really see the swelling clearly, but body build and arms speak more for Desta than for Raj. Azize is a boy? (Raj has a girl?)

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    We don't know the gender of any of them (Azize or Raj's infant). We could try now

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    AVInf09 ( Raj's infant) I think is a female

    ACP000fwey

    one
    one

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    And Azize seems to be a male, right?

    ACP000emk2

    one

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yup, quite clearly a boy 😃

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    great, thanks!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    This female could be Desta. The long face, the big ears, with the left one more separated, fit with Desta. I am confused about the infant size.

    I thought that could be also Taiga, but the ears don't fit and her infant is smaller that this one,

    What do you think?

    ACP000emi7

    one

    Desta

    one

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I'm quite sure that those are Desta and Azize.
    The females' ears are exactly as you described them and she also has a long face and that little uneven part in her right brow that looks like a pimple.
    The little one seems to be a bit small but it's probably the perspective that makes him look smaller than usual. After all, he's still sometimes carried around.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Infant size is hard to determine with that camera position, but the youngster is a boy and not much speaks again him being Azize. And the adult looks like Desta.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    great! thanks ladies

    Posted