Chimp & See Talk

Makena & Inf and Jojo-Crann--Fem&inf and juvenile male

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,
    I am wondering if these are Makena&AVInf02 and Jojo-Crann.

    ACP000ggqa

    The "family" composition fits

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Yes, have this on my list, too.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    This could be the known family, yes. I just checked the size of the infant. At first I thought it ought to be bigger in January but when we look at it's size in Februrary I think it fits. Here with Jojo-Crann:

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks both!

    Boleyn, from which video is that still image? Thanks 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Sorry Paula, I forgot the rules 😃 it's from ACP000e5p5

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    hahha, I just wanted to see the video. Thanks! 😉

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I am wondering if this is also Makena... I think I see the cut in the right ear, and has a gray back what fits with her...

    ACP000gno2

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    What do you think? Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yes, Paula, I think you are right about Makena. The ear looks special, grey back an swelling is corresponding with Makena. And I'm once more referring o the almost white muzzle of her girl infant 😃

    In the video you suspected the first female to be Desta, probably because of her swelling? The big ventral infant would then be Azize. S/he usually walks alone or rides on the back but maybe there was something that let Desta put him/her from back to belly. Or s/he's just doing it for fun? The left brow looks a bit distorted like Azize's...?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks Boleyn!

    Yes, that is what I thought about Desta too (the swelling, the big infant...) I posted it here 😉

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Could they be Makena & AVInf02 and Jojo-Crann? (watch the videos better)

    ACP000gbwo

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    The sizes fit, and Makana has also a white spot in the left part of her back, see here

    ACP000fw3h Makena

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    ACP000fno3 Makena

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I find it hard to compare body size when they are swinging in the trees, but my first impression is that this juvenile is a bit smaller than Jojo-Crann, or? Gray back and small infant in summer 2014 fits for Makena, though. And juvenile seems to be male.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I think they are a bit far, but If you compare the "juvenile's" size with the female, he is not small

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think in ACP000g1b5 we see Makena with her infant. The back view (gray back, small roundish swelling, lean body) is consistent. The infant is female. Earlier in this scene in ACP000g1b1 is a male juvenile. I'm having a bit trouble to estimate body size, but the testicles start to descend, I think. So, he isn't too small and might be Jojo-Crann. Directly before Makena is a female juvenile - might be Sabirah, but only because we've seen her often with Makena.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Yeah, this is Makena's back!

    I think makes sense that the male juvenile in ACP000g1b1 is Jojo-Crann, the size fits, and is the only male old-juvenile we have seen. The female juvenile could totally be Sabirah, also because of the size. Good seen Anja!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I've just seen ACP000gfmv in classification and the bald, gray-backed female with the small infant might be Makena. She looks here a bit more robust, I have to admit, but has the known small swelling. I am not really sure, but also don't know who else this can be.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I agree, looks like Makera. Same back gray patron, same swelling. Has to be her. 😉

    Thanks Anja!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I am thinking that this female could be Makena. Gray back, bald, could have some damage in the right ear... but the juvenile/infant makes me doubt. Is it not too big to be AVInf02?

    ACP000f2ti

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000f2ti: No, I don't think so. That's in my opinion rather Fianna. She also has a ear damage, is more robust, and has a more protruded swelling (Makena's is barely seen from the side view). Her offspring (Shugi) is also bigger. Would fit here way more, I think.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Shugi would fit better yes, but Fianna doesn't have the back that gray, right?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    I think her back is quite gray and here in the sunlight it appears just a bit lighter, compare with ACP000fw71

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    yeah, I am feeling more confident about the match with Fianna and Shugi. Thanks Anja.

    Do the others agree with this? Thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi Paula,

    I just had ACP000f2th for classification (the video before ACP000f2ti, the last one we last discussed here). I think Makena and infant (and Jojo-Crann) are here visible. Jojo-Crann might be the big male juvenile and Makena the one with the small dorsal infant to whom Jojo-Crann is looking and moving when she is moving with her long, determined gait. She is leaner than the other female, has a very small swelling, and a gray back.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    mmmm... maybe Jojo-Crann is less risky because is the only big juvenile male that we have, but I am not sure about Makena & inf

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Actually, there is a second male juvenile in this scene in ACP000f2tg - following what might be Desta (based mainly on the swelling, but I am not sure. Does Desta have such hanging breasts?). I think the male juvenile in ACP000f2th is a bit bigger and might indeed be Jojo-Crann. Is the other one in ACP000f2tg Ussuri or one that we did not recognize before? There is the bulky light right brow ...

    I am still convinced that the gray-backed female is Makena and Fianna is in the back.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    right! the first one, in the video ACP000f2tg definitely is bigger and fits better with Jojo-Crann. Who is the second juv then?

    I agree with Desta and Azize being the first par in ACP000f2tg, and then Jojo-Crann. Sorry I am still not sure about Makena, but I agreed with Fianna's proposal too.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I agree to Fianna/Shugi (clear Fianna face view) and Desta/Azize (swelling and Azize's typical brows and stare)

    First I was not sure about Makena/infant either. I tried to find a video in a similar position and to my surprise Makena's back does not look as grey at daylight as it does at night.
    Compare video ACP000fno3

    So if the juvenile really is Jojo-Crann (and I can't think of any other that would fit the size) the female he's looking at must then be Makena. Mostly circumstantial evidence only but I have no other idea...

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks for your comments Anja and Heidi 😉

    Maybe she is Makena, but as we have doubts we shouldn't do the match, or at least for now. The fact that he looks to her indicates some bond/relation but we don't know which.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Here in ACP000f0hp we have a similar situation: I am not sure about the first female (might be Desta or Raj), then a big male juvenile (Jojo-Crann?) followed by a gray-backed, bald, and lean female with a small infant and a very small swelling (Makena and infant?) and another female with a ventral infant (maybe Taiga or AVFem19).

    Video found by @OlEnglish.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Wow Anja! I am very impressed. I think it is very hard to be sure, they are far and the video quality is not very good, but it is awesome that you can propose who they are. 😮

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000gbwo - I now agree: Makena + infant + Jojo-Crann

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Good, thanks!

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Makena & inf and Jojo-Crann?

    ACP000ejs6

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    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I wasn't sure first but after comparing Jojo-Crann with this video ACP000e758 I could agree with Makena and family. The infant seems to have the right size and the brighter circle around the mouth fits as well.

    Joho-Crann in video ACP000ejs6

    enter image description here

    and in ACP000e758 to compare

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Agree on ACP000gbwo As an additional identifyer she's carrying ventrally in July 14. Together with her built, color and big juvenile there's no doubt for me that those are Makena and her kids.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Great, thanks Heidi

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Agree on ACP000ejs6 = Makena & infant + Jojo-Crann

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000ezsc - based on family composition and body build / swelling of the female, I suggest here Makena, Gilly, and Jojo-Crann. It's not an obvious match, I know.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000f0hp - the third female here with a small dorsal infant seems to be Makena.

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    i think its best if we leave these as unresolved unless there is a way to be sure its none of the other females?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to MimiA's comment.

    Some of my suggestions from yesterday are not easy, but this ACP000f0hp is actually a pretty clear one. We matched Makena (small swelling, small infant, grayish and rectangular back) several times only from behind and in a distance. In addition, here often considered family composition, as her big male juvenile walks before her. (Just because I did not argue well in yesterday's posting here.)

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    To be able to see the entire sequence I had to pull out the next clip of the same minute ACP000f0hq and I also tagged it. Hope that's ok?

    I'm not sure about Makena here. I think the swelling is too big and her right ear seems to be ok. Although it's dark we see the ear quite well when she turns her head.

    ACP000ezsc might be Makena as Anja said from family composition and the swelling looks more like Makena's as in the other suggested match.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Wait, the third chimp, after the juvenile, with the small dorsal infant in ACP000f0hp. Not the one barely seen. (Please do not tag additional videos.) (The other one is rather Taiga, but not really clear.)

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Oh, if one could read... 😕

    It might be Makena but I'm really not sure, sorry!

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Not real confident forACP000ezsc, but I agree that the swelling does look like Makena's

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    For ACP000f0hp again it's very hard to confirm. The swelling is similar, but otherwise I don't have enough detail. Are we sure the juvenile in front of her belongs to her and not to the female in front?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    ACP000ezsc: Makena's back is more gray.... I can not agree with it

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    ACP000f0hp: hard to be sure, quality/perspective is not good enough

    Posted