Chimp & See Talk

**Gaia: adult Female Chimp Carrying Infant Green Snowflake

  • puddock by puddock

    Very excited to have come across a chimp clip in my first ten or so Green Snowflake clips. Hope this is a sign that chimps are doing well here! I'm not very good at chimp ID but I assume this is an adult female. She looks very grey to me - I wonder if she's quite old. The baby is a real cutie too!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to puddock's comment.

    yes!! our first chimp on GS!!

    she is an adult female, black, long and a bit bony face, a kind of triangular baldness over her brows, black and straight brows, white beard. Ears look ok. She seems to have a while spot over her left shoulder, or it might be the hair direction when she turns: GSFem01 + GSInf01 😃

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    I have been through few videos of Green Snow Flake now and saw few videos of an adult chimp with a juvenile at the same place (but not the same day/time). When I went through the "Prospective/Known chimps" I saw again this adult with juvenile at the same place. I don't know if all these chimps are the same but that's why I open the discussion.

    The video where they are tag as GSFem01 and GSInf01 : ACP000d9kx / ACP000d9kz
    GSFem01 and GSInf01 on ACP000d9kx
    GSFem01 and GSInf01 on ACP000d9kz

    All the videos where I have the feeling I saw them : ACP000da9s / ACP000d6do / ACP000d6es

    adult and juvenile on ACP000da9s

    We can see the face of the juvenile which seem darker but I think it's just the light. I can't see the yellow part of the back but I don't know if it's not here or if it's just because of the posture.

    adult and juvenile on ACP000d6do

    Here, we can see the face of the adult. I can see lighter hair on the leg on back part. Also, the face look really similar with a bald triangle over the brows, black and straight brows. I can't see the white beard.

    adult and juvenile on ACP000d6es

    Here we can see the back of the adult, which seem yellowish but darker than on the first 2 videos. Probably because of the light. I can't see the face properly but it looks similar.

    I don't know when where taken these videos and I didn't tried to find the sequence yet.
    Here is where I am with my thoughts. What are yours ?

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    I would add this one : ACP000d6sf
    Dark but yellowish back for the adult. The face of the juvenile seem dark but the light seem different too.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    I add a new one : ACP000d9j4

    enter image description here

    I think we can see the yellowish back on the chimp on the right.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to Orohena's comment.

    I think the infant is too big/old in ACP000d6sf on 2-03-2013 to be a match, so I would rule that one out.

    ACP000d9ja - She stands up and you can see her infant is quite small/young here on 5-31-2013. (Also we get a nice look at her light back coloring pattern)

    enter image description here

    ACP000d6sf Compare to this infant's size.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to Orohena's comment.

    Agree with your match proposal that ACP000d9kw series chimp is a match to ACP000d9j4 series chimp, they have similar light yellowish back pattern and infants are a similar size.

    ACP000d9kw - Looking at the face, somewhat elf-like ears, pale beard, big round nostrils.

    enter image description here

    ACP000d9j4 - Compare to this female's facial similarities, (though the light is very different here) somewhat elf-like ears, pale beard, big round nostrils.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    wow I didn't saw the ACP000d9ja ! But definitely her infant is young on this one compare to the one on ACP000d6sf.

    What do you think about the 3 : ACP000da9s / ACP000d6do / ACP000d6es ?
    I might match these 3 videos with ACP000d6sf regarding the infant size even if I see some similarities in the face of the female...

    Feel a bit lost 😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to Orohena's comment.

    I agree that it's kind of confusing sometimes considering the many clips we watch and the differences in angle of view and lighting 😃

    Don't see enough detais with these to tell for sure. It's the same location so possibly the same chimps though. ACP000da9s / ACP000d6do / ACP000d6es and ACP000d6sf

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    After some research, I found the date/time for all of them and I think we can match :

    ACP000d9kx / ACP000d9kz (17-Apr-2013) which are GSFem01 and GSInf01 and ACP000d9ja / ACP000d9j4 (31-May-2013) : size of the infant is similar, the color of the lower back of the adult is yellowish and adult faces are the same (light brows, dark eyes, same "space" between eye and nostril and between nostril and mouth, light nose area)

    ACP000d6sf / ACP000d6do / ACP000d6es : all the same day (03-Feb-2013), size of the infant is the same, the color of the lower back of the adult is lighter than the rest, and this color continue on the legs.

    ACP000da9s : (10-Jun-2013) This is more similar to the second series but I can't see a lighter lower back or leg on the adult, size of the infant is bigger but it's also few months later. I can't really match the face of the infant as it's not clear on ACP000d6sf to see the face characteristics.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Orohena's comment.

    WOW!! thanks @Orohena and @Snorticus for this amazing detective work!!

    these are my thoughts:

    1. I agree that ACP000d9ja / ACP000d9j4 are GSFem01 + infant. I see same baldness and back + anal area coloration patterns 😃

    2. ACP000d6sf / ACP000d6do / ACP000d6es : as @Snorticus says, the infant here is bigger than GSInf01. The female looks thinner and a bit younger than GSFem01. Her back is not so yellowish either. But I will give her a temID anyway 😃 GSFem05 + GSInf05

    3. ACP000da9s : same story; infant bigger than GSInf01. Here we don´t see much of her, so no temID. Let´s hope for other videos of this sequence, with more visible traits of her to come.

    So if we all agree with ACP000d9ja / ACP000d9j4 = GSFem01 + GSInf01 , then we have our first match in GS!! any one wants to weigh in here?

    😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to NuriaM's comment.

    So we agree that #GSFem01 in:

    ACP000d9kw ACP000d9kx ACP000d9ky ACP000d9kz

    Is a match to the female chimp in:

    ACP000d9j4 ACP000d9j6 ACP000d9j8 ACP000d9ja

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena in response to NuriaM's comment.

    1. Then we all agree that, as @Snorticus says #GSFem01 is in the ACP000d9kw series and in the ACP000d9j4 series.

    2. Do we agree that GSFem05 is in ACP000d6sf / ACP000d6do / ACP000d6es @NuriaM & @Snorticus ?

    3. Let's keep this video in mind and wait for more !

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Orohena's comment.

    Good morning 😃

    Exactly:

    GSFem05 is in ACP000d6ai
    ACP000d6am
    ACP000d6es
    ACP000d6sf
    ACP000d6gx
    ACP000d6do

    and

    GSFem01 (+ inf) in ACP000d9kw ACP000d9kx ACP000d9ky ACP000d9kz = ACP000d9j4 ACP000d9j6 ACP000d9j8 ACP000d9ja (TO BE NAMED)

    @Orohena, you started this discussion and proposed this match, so it´s your turn to give us a name for #GSFem01 😃 (just a reminder, the infants will be named when the site is over)

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    Oh great ! I would like to name her Gaïa. Thank you @NuriaM and @Snorticus for your help !

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    I found this video which might be GSFem05 : ACP000d6t4 (Same size of the infant and same grey back)

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Wonderful name @Orohena and congrats to the first match at GreenSnowflake, well done!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Orohena's comment.

    I love Gaïa , thanks @Orohena !!

    One small thing: I don´t know why the hashtag doesn´t seem to work with the ï , but it does with an i ; would it be ok to use Gaia instead of Gaïa ? Does anyone have an idea about it?

    Please don´t feel condicioned by the fact that I already added Gaia to the list; if you don´t want to use i and use another name instead, I will easily fix it in the list, no problem 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Orohena's comment.

    As for ACP000d6t4 I think this video belongs to the GSFem05 series. As there is no time stamp on it, let´s wait until it lands on the chimp list and see the date. Let´s keep track of it, thanks!!

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena

    I am totally fine with the writing Gaia.
    I already thought about it as it is always tricky to use these kind of letters !
    Not a problem at all 😃 Thank you @NuriaM

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Orohena's comment.

    😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000d9q4 - should be Gaia and infant. It's - according to the spreadsheet just 4 minutes before ACP000d9j4 and traits fit. There a minute recording time missing between both clip, though. But I wanted to leave it here. Maybe we can confirm later.

    It seems that the time stamps from the camera itself and in the spreadsheet are off by one hour (plus the usual minute). Should we include a column for the corrected time stamp in the spreadsheet?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hi Anja,

    she is Gaia, tagged 😃

    do you mean the column called "timestamp on video"? we already have one (column P). Or maybe you mean something else 😕

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    No, I meant the corrections as in the Cool Silence spreadsheet (column C). But maybe that is not necessary for this site.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Right, ok.

    Feel free to add it if you think it´s going to be helpful 😃

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    Might this be her again?

    ACP000dpm3 clip found by @jurassicworld

    ACP000dpm1
    ACP000dpm2
    ACP000dpm4

    Both adults have infants with them.

    The other female looks a lot like GSFem02.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    @lauraklynn, I also think that she might be Gaia. Thanks!

    Left; Gaia in ACP000d9kw . Right ACP000dpm1

    enter image description here

    As for GSFem02 , I agree too. she looks much like GSFem02: black face shape, thin brows and baldpatch 😃

    Left , GSFem02 in ACP000dtmg . Right ACP000dpm4

    enter image description here

    What do others think?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    merged 😃

    Posted

  • chia89 by chia89

    I think that Gaia (GSFem01) and GSInf01 in video ACP000d9kx / ACP000d9kz are the same as in video ACP000d9k7.
    The grayish humped area on the back looks the same. The infant is of the same size and she has big ears and a bit whiter mouth.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to chia89's comment.

    hi @chia89 , you are right, this lady is Gaia. She was agreed to be Gaia and tagged in ACP000d9q4 , same day, same place and only 6 minutes later. All traits fit.

    Tagged 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Today I came across this chimp lady eating away from the tree. We can also but just barely see her little infant. ACP000d6ty
    I think it's Gaia again at the same spot. She has a very characteristic face, big ears and well, just the Gaia-look 😃

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks @Boleyn !!

    this video actually belongs to the GSFem05 and GSInf05 sequence:

    ACP000d6ai 03-Feb-2013 12:18 : GSFem05 + GSInf05

    ACP000d6am 03-Feb-2013 12:18 : GSFem05 + GSInf05

    ACP000d6ty 03-Feb-2013 12:19

    ACP000d6es 03-Feb-2013 12:33 : GSFem05 + GSInf05

    Do you think that GSFem05 could be Gaia?

    Gaia has a white beard and Fem05 doesn´t, but it might be just the light...

    thoughts?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Gaia and GSFem05 do look similar that's probably why I just suggested her to actually be Gaia not further checking on GSFem05. I have to take a closer look at them to absolutely be sure. Just give me some more time 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    thanks!!!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Ok here are my 2 cents regarding Gaia and GSFem05.
    No I don't think they are the same chimp. I was just assuming that the video above showed Gaia because she's only seen at that same tree and I wasn't aware that there was another similar female at the same place. At a closer look there are some differences between the two:

    Gaia's back is lighter than GSFem05's and the bright part streches a little bit further up the back.

    Gaia's ears are a bit smaller. Especially GSFem05's right ear seems to be very big and stands very much out.

    Gaia's brows are slightly bent, GSFem05's brows are quite striaght and very narrow

    Gaia's hair at the back of the head and the beard are white, GSFem05's are at least less bright.

    Gaia's bald spot is wide but triangular while I think that GSFem05's baldness is generally wider

    Gaia has an infant, with GSFem05 we never see an infant (this does not say that there couldn't be one hidden)

    enter image description here

    GSFem05

    enter image description here

    A bit confusing is the Gaia video ACP000d9kx in the GSFem05 collection. Would you mind to remove it Nuria? Thanks 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks Heidi!! amazing brainstorm 😃

    sorry about the video, I just thought that I have no idea how a Gaia´s video has landed into the Fem05´s tag group, and forgot about repairing it 😄 . Done.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    The video ACP000d9kx is associated with this discussion here, because of the way it was posted. That's why a tag used in the discussion will also be used as tags for this video. That means we need to remove all tags that do not belong to this video from the discussion.

    (When you open the video site, you can see that the GSFem05 and GSInf05 tags are still applied.)

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Oh I see, that's how it happened. But I think a video can be deleted from a collection without needing to remove all discussion tags. I take it that's how Nuria has done it?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thanks Anja for the explanation.

    I have only excluded the tag GSFem01 from the GSFem05 tag group, as we will be calling Fem01 Gaia, if a video containing them both appears.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    But the video is still tagged with GSFem05 and GSInf05 - this will get problematic later in the cleaning process because too many and different identities are assigned to the video. So, yes, we should remove the tags from the discussion as they are still associated with the video (see screenshot). It's not only the collection, but I agree that is the most important part as it is confusing for the volunteers discussing here.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    oh, ok now I get it 😃

    Thanks Anja!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    This video ACP000dph8 probably shows our blondie Gaia and infant as well. The couple in the back.

    enter image description here

    About the lady in the foreground I haven't made up my mind yet 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    thanks @Boleyn , she really looks like Gaia. I have a small doubt about the infants; this new one looks a bit bigger to me, even if the video was recorded some months before Gaia´s:

    ACP000dph8 18-Mar-2013 16:00

    enter image description here

    Gaia in ACP000d9ja 31-May-2013 14:10 :

    enter image description here

    What do you think?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    ...and we have a new lady, GSFem12 + GSInf12 , the spitting chimp 😄

    Posted

  • chia89 by chia89

    Hi everybody,

    I came across a series of video that according to the spreedsheet were taken just few minutes before or after the Gaia's video.

    No hard recognition needed. =)

    I put in bold the ones already identified as Gaia (with tag or in spreedsheet).

    ACP000d9s8 ACP000d9s9 ACP000d9sa ACP000d9sb taken at 13:56
    ACP000d9la ACP000d9ld ACP000d9lg ACP000d9lj taken at 13:59

    ACP000d9jy ACP000d9k1 ACP000d9k4ACP000d9k7 taken at 14:00

    ACP000d9jk ACP000d9jl ACP000d9jn ACP000d9jp taken at 14:03

    ACP000d9to ACP000d9tp ACP000d9tq ACP000d9tr taken at 14:06

    ACP000d9q4 ACP000d9q5 ACP000d9q7 ACP000d9qa taken at 14:05

    ACP000d9hc ACP000d9he ACP000d9hg ACP000d9hi taken at 14:08

    ACP000d9j4 ACP000d9j6 ACP000d9j8 ACP000d9ja taken at 14:10

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to chia89's comment.

    thanks a lot @chia89 !! awesome 😃

    all tagged and I will add GSJuv05 to the list. He is a male late juvenile, very big ears that point out, light muzzle and dark mask that stops right above his nose.

    GSJuv05 is seen in:

    ACP000d9s8 ACP000d9s9 ACP000d9sa ACP000d9sb

    ACP000d9la ACP000d9ld ACP000d9lg ACP000d9lj

    ACP000d9jy ACP000d9k1 ACP000d9k4 ACP000d9k7

    ACP000d9jk ACP000d9jl ACP000d9jn ACP000d9jp

    ACP000d9to

    and maybe in

    ACP000d9hc ACP000d9he ACP000d9hg ACP000d9hi

    ACP000d9j4 ACP000d9j6 ACP000d9j8 ACP000d9ja too?

    Posted

  • chia89 by chia89

    Yes I would also say it's GSJuv05 in the second series of videos as well.

    I also found the subsequent series:

    ACP000d9q6 ACP000d9q8 ACP000d9qb ACP000d9qd

    in ACP000d9qd his face is pretty clear and also is butt seems the same as in ACP000d9s8
    is this also a distinctive character or it's just the same in all chimps?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to chia89's comment.

    I am sure that we have juv05 in the second series:

    here on the left, we have juv05 from ACP000d9s8 (I have rotated the first pic -upper left corner-, so that we compare it with the pic on the right better), and the juv in the second series on the right, from ACP000d9hc . Size, face, rear and context fit...tagged 😃

    enter image description here

    I would prefer not to tag still these: ACP000d9q8 ACP000d9qb ACP000d9qd until they are classified, but I´m tracking them 😃

    THANKS!!!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000d2wd and ACP000d2wf - I think the female with the small infant is Gaia and her little one. It is a bit hard to determine with the black-and-white footage, but there is the small infant (no one is this group has such a small infant, except Hasina-Yvette later) and her facial traits (muzzle, balding, brows, whitish beard), the gray back, and stature agree.

    enter image description here

    Gaia

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, I agree on Gaia:

    this is Gaia in ACP000dz3m , in a similar position:

    enter image description here

    and this is the lady in ACP000d2wf :

    enter image description here

    infant´s size, body build, head shape, face homogeneously colored, ... thoughts?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Agree on this B&W ACP000d2wd & ACP000d2wf - looks like Gaia & her small infant.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    Thanks!!! 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Quite interesting: in the sequence with Gaia travelling there are four young females all following in the same direction.
    Gaia followed by a subadult male in ACP000dz3m, then the four females in ACP000dz3n ACP000dz3p ACP000dz3r

    Gaia identified, and clearly the tallest one of the four:

    enter image description here

    followed by a gal of which I'm not sure if she's fully grown where we get face and swelling view in ACP000dz3n Dark face with a brighter part under the eyes, strongly bent brows, seemingly round balding, wide nose with big nostrils, greyish muzzle. Her left ear looks crumpled on top.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Then in ACP000dz3n and ACP000dz3p an even smaller subadult female with thin limbs and smaller swelling.

    enter image description here

    The third one still in ACP000dz3p about the same size as the first one has very black hair, straight protruding brows and a big swelling.

    enter image description here

    And finally in ACP000dz3r the fourth runs by fast in the background. Also dark hair and a somewhat odd looking swelling, more wide than high, but maybe it's just the perspective. She's about the same size as no. 2 I think.

    enter image description here

    Given the fact that they are all following Gaia they seem to belong to the second group. One of them might be Mona. It will be interesting to try to match them to the known or not yet known females at the second feeding tree. I'm thinking of Kalypso, GSFem09, GSFem10 etc.

    Proposals are welcome! 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I made a suggestion for the female in ACP000dz3n (match to GSFem22) here.

    For the third one (second one in ACP000dz3p with a full swelling) I would spontaneously vote for Kalypso - very dark, straight and protruded gray brows. Ears are similar and body size agrees, too. Swelling is similar in comparison to ACP000d9x9, not sure about cycle length - both videos are in May 5th vs. 28th. She is not swollen in February, but we could expect longer occurence of max swellings in younger nulliparous females, right?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Awesome!

    ok, so we have:

    ACP000dz3m : Gaia + GSInf29 and GSJuv09

    ACP000dz3n : might-be-GSFem22 (as I mentioned in the thread, I agree) and GSFem38

    ACP000dz3p : GSFem38 and might-be-Kalypso ( I agree)

    ACP000dz3r : a distant female

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    For me the first one in ACP000dz3n could be renamed from might-be-GSFem22 to GSFem22 😃 because I see the same facial traits: triangel shaped balding, quite bright, bent brows, brighter patches of skin underneath her eyes, greyish muzzle. The upper part of her left ear seems to have a fold (stop video around sec 4) same as GSFem22. Also the size seems to fit.

    I also agree on Kalypso for the second one in ACP000dz3p. The traits are convincing.

    Yay, Greensnowflake rocks 😄

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks Heidi. As you have found them, would you like to suggest a name/namer for GSFem22?

    thanks so much 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thanks Nuria! It was actually Anja who suggested the match with GSFem22 but since she's not around until mid September may I suggest @Sotigan as a namer?

    S/he has been around quite a lot lately and helped with tagging 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Good idea, thanks 😃

    @Sotigan , would you like to give us a name for GSFem22? She is a young lady walking with Gaia:

    ACP000dz3n

    enter image description here

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • Sotigan by Sotigan

    Thank you, I am honored! May I suggest to name her Hedy?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Sotigan's comment.

    Thanks so much, Hedy is a great name 😃

    does it have a special meaning to you?

    Posted

  • Sotigan by Sotigan

    Well, it's just for Hedy Lamarr, a brilliant actress and scientist of the last century!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Sotigan's comment.

    She was an amazing and sooooo intelligent and beautiful woman!

    thanks for shedding light on brilliant women 😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to Sotigan's comment.

    Hedy is a great choice @Sotigan !

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    here Hedy´s thread

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    One more evidence that beauty and intelligence go very well together!

    Love your choice, @Sotigan!

    Posted