Chimp & See Talk

**Layla, Jamie, Jana, Fowey: Juvenile curious about camera

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    Video ACP000cxds

    Camera reaction with a good look at the face:

    It could be GSJuv01, but I'm not convinced yet.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    thanks Laura, so sweet!!

    #GSJuv03 ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Iยดm not sure about GSJuv01, sizes might fit, but I see his/her face a bit darker and rounder. Also, #GSJuv03 has a dark nose area, which I canยดt see in #GSJuv01 ๐Ÿ˜•

    #GSJuv01: enter image description here

    #GSJuv03 : enter image description here

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    Here (s)he is again in ACP000cxdo

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    Thanksssss ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @Corcaroli found a great video from a beautiful family: ACP000dk65 - the family composition (but now with a newborn) looks very much like the individuals we see with GSJuv03 in ACP000cxdo - a robust, bald female (compare her eyebrows), a smaller individual with a darker eye mask and rounder face than GSJuv03 (on the left in the screenshot) and GSJuv03 itself (here on the right) with the light face and pouty lip.

    It's four months later than our GSJuv03 footage, so the tiny infant might still fit.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    While I'm not confident enough to comment on the rest of the family, the juvenile does look like a match with GSJuv03 to me.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yes, I'd support that match ๐Ÿ˜ƒ
    Well GSJuv03 would certainly be with the same family as 4 months earlier. The second juvenile is a bit smaller, same as in the ACP000cxdo, and the female seems to have a grey backside as well.

    We get a great look at the second juvenile as well: short face, bright muzzle, nicely bent brows, mask not too dark, round bald spot on forhead, ears seem ok.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Awesome! I support this match. Here are my arguments:

    • The female: left ACP000cxdo (GSJuv13 footage), right ACP000dk65 . Baldness fit, brows curve too. Also, she has sort of small whitish horizontal lines below her eyes in both cases. As Anja says, the infant size fits too:

    enter image description here

    • GSJuv13ยดs buddy: left ACP000cxdo (GSJuv13 footage), right ACP000dk65 . Not a nice still, but one can see that the face colorations agree and the small round bald patch is present in both juvs. Sizes fit too:

    enter image description here

    • GSJuv13 : left ACP000cxdo (Juv13), right ACP000dk65. Here I see clearly the same individual; sizes fit, and also see the vertical lines of their right forearms:

    enter image description here

    Also, the whole context agrees ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    We need 3 names!!!

    @AnLand, @lauraklynn, @Boleyn , you already named two chimps at this site; would you like to give your last name here, or would you rather give this opportunity away?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I am fine with asking other volunteers for a name.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Me too, Nuria, go ahead! ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    I am happy to let someone else choose names.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    you guys rock! thanks a million ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    here are the namers that I propose and the reasons:

    @Corcaroli , who found the family in ACP000dk65

    @chia89 , who has been very actively participating in several GS threads and still didnยดt name any chimp.

    @charly03 , who has been very active at classifying and who found some videos of Vala and Eliot.

    @Corcaroli, @chia89 and @charly03, would you like to decide who is naming which chimp of this family,
    the female, GSJuv03ยดs buddy or GSJuv03?

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    So here are the videos with this family. By the way, GSJuv03ยดs buddy seems to be a female ๐Ÿ˜‰

    ACP000cxdo
    ACP000cxdq
    ACP000cxds

    ACP000dk65

    Posted

  • Corcaroli by Corcaroli

    Thanks to all of you for letting me select a name. The name I suggest is Layla, for the adult female "robust, bald female" mentioned in the discussion. I hope this is acceptable.

    Regards, Dick

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Corcaroli's comment.

    Layla fits her, thanks!! ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to Corcaroli's comment.

    Wonderful name, Dick!

    Now there's yet another ear candy going around in my head... โ™ซโ™ช... ๐Ÿ˜„

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    ...youยดve got me on my knees โ™ซโ™ช

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    ...oh do I? 8)

    Posted

  • chia89 by chia89

    Hallo everybody, thanks for the nice opportunity!
    Will Jonny fit for GSJuv03ยดs buddy?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Different spelling, but at ColdFire we had a young chimp named Johnny. This might be confusing?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    oh, yes, Iยดm afraid that this could be confusing. @chia89, just some small advice: GSJuv03ยดs buddy is very likely a female. What about the feminine versions of Jonny?
    Johanna or Jana ...just an idea, but this is of course your own decision ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    thanks @Snorticus for checking it ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • chia89 by chia89

    Ops, thank you for noticing.
    If she's a female, then Jana sounds like a good idea.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to chia89's comment.

    We have found and matched so many chimps now that a lot of names have been used and it is getting harder not to duplicate. I think Jana is a good name for this chimp, @chia89

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to chia89's comment.

    Thanks @chia89 ! ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000dx0p - I think that this could be Layla again with her newborn (it's a month before we've first seen her with an infant). General stature, gray back, baldness, form of brows, and the white beard agree. But the footage is not the best.

    enter image description here

    Additionally in ACP000dx0n, found by @charly03, we see a juvenile that might be the bigger of the two we've seen with her. That means, a match to GVJuv03.

    enter image description here

    Not sure, about all this and one kid is missing, but there are clear similarities.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I agree with you, I think this lady is Layla and GSJuv03 walks before her. Jana shouldnยดt be too far away from them:

    Layla in ACP000dk65 :

    enter image description here

    and ACP000dx0p :

    enter image description here

    more thoughts?

    Posted

  • charly03 by charly03

    Jamie for GSJuv03

    ๐Ÿ˜ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ƒ ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to charly03's comment.

    Thank you @charly03!!! Jamie is a beautiful name ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Layla, Jana and Jamie

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Can I ask you guys to check these juv + female that Anja suggested to be a match to Layla and her curious Jamie? (see above)

    ACP000dx0n / ACP000dx0p

    enter image description here

    what do you guys think?

    I support this match ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I was a bit puzzled about the two videos until I checked the missing link ACP000dx0o not yet classified. But I think we need that here for the context. I'm quite sure we see the same family again. Everthing fits except for the missing second juvenile. But maybe Jamie does not belong to this family and his mother was just not to see in the other videos...? Would be an explanation to why he's missing here, but it's just a thought though. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks so much Heidi!

    so you think that this juvenile in the video is Jana and not Jamie ? Hmmm...I thought Jana was the one missing, but now Iยดm not sure:

    left Jamie ( ACP000cxdo ), right Jana ( ACP000dk65 ). Below ACP000dx0n.

    enter image description here

    I think this new juv. has more Jamieยดs size ๐Ÿ˜• what do you think?

    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    Juveniles are really difficult, but I also think that it's the bigger juvenile of this family with the lighter face, that means, I think, it's Jamie, not Jana. And I would agree with this proposition, because of the clear similiarity of the female to Layla and the family composition. As we can only see part of the entire space here in the camera scope and have only this one minute, I think, it's easy to assume that Jana (the smaller juvenile) is still there, but not seen on record.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.

    thanks midnightsun!!! Jana might be as well behind the camera ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    great, so we have Layla and Jamie in these videos.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Nuria, I thought it was Jana because of the bright muzzle but of course Jamie has that too, it's just not as well seen in the pic with both of them. I'm ok with Jamie in ACP000dx0n ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Yes, I still think it's Jamie.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    This is just a test posting as our system has some hiccups this morning. (Will delete later.)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000dkx7 (foung by @MingMing): The female arriving looks like Layla with her infant. Jana is following her and Jamie is already at the log and changes position from behind the log to the front in ACP000dkxa

    Layla on the right with infant

    enter image description here

    Jana on the far right (in back)

    enter image description here

    Jamie (here looking in camera direction), very light face. Jana is darker (see above) ACP000dkxa

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    This pic of Layla from ACP000dk65 I think is good for a compaison and I think too that it is her in the new scene:

    enter image description here

    and from ACP000dkx7

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Great! thanks ladies ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Could this couple in ACP000d5a1 be Layla and Jana? There's only the female's back visible but it looks quite similar to Layla's back in ACP000cxdo I couldn't find a good still of Layla but it's quite well seen in the clip. The video is also from November and the baby is not born yet. The juvenile seems to be a girl and looks like Jana, same baldness, nicely shaped brows, slightly brighter muzzle and the size seems to fit.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Jana in ACP000dk65

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I don't really know about Jana, but the juvenile looks male to me.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I see Laylaยดs back a bit clearer in ACP000cxdo ๐Ÿ˜•

    I will keep good track of this video and will come back to it...

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I looked at this video ACP000d0mw and found that this is definitely the same juvenile than in ACP000d5a1 - and while checking its proposed "family" (untagged, individuals in association) I came to the conclusion that I agree to @Boleyn's suggestion about Layla and Jana in ACP000d5a1.

    ACP000d0mw

    enter image description here

    ACP000d5a1

    enter image description here

    In this new video ACP000d0mw, it looks a bit more like a girl, but I'm still uncertain, or even a bit doubtful. (What seems to be clear from the untagged videos, is that Jamie is female.)

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think in ACP000czgt / ACP000czgu we see Layla and her youngest, now already proudly riding on her back and taking of some meters on its own. It's seven months after we've seen the little the first time, so I think that should work size-wise.

    enter image description here

    In the next - still unclassified - video, it appears that Jana joins them and plays with the infant.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I have checked again this thread, and I agree that we have Layla, Jamie and Jana in

    ACP000d5a1 : Layla and Jana

    ACP000d0mw : Jana

    ACP000czgt / ACP000czgu : Layla and infant (and Jana coming next) ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    I am very unclear about both juvenileยดs sex...Anja, what makes you think that Jamie is a female?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi Nuria,

    you tagged ACP000d5a1 with Layla and infant, but I can't see an infant and I think that we did not see the newborn before February 2013. It's here only Layla and Jana.

    For Jamie: in ACP000d0ms (untagged) we see a girl that looks like Jamie, but we need to be careful as the female with the big infant might be GSFem17 etc. and she also has a bigger juvenile that looks similar to Jamie (GSJuv08 etc. that you recorded as male). This here is a female and I think for GSJuv08e in ACP000dmo2 (continuation from ACP000dmo0 / ACP000dmo1) it also looks like a girl.

    And we do see the big girl also in ACP000dlrp / ACP000dlrr and also a big infant and also a smaller juvenile that might well be Jana (screenshot below). So, I am not sure about to whom "Jamie" belongs and whether it's this female.

    enter image description here

    "the girl parts"

    enter image description here

    Might be Jana

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    thanks Anja:

    you tagged ACP000d5a1 with Layla and infant, but I can't see an infant and I think that we did not see the newborn before February 2013. It's here only Layla and Jana.

    fixed, sorry ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    I will go back to Jamie and Jana, I need some time to check them...

    Danke!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    @Corcaroli found this video ACP000dz3m with a traveling female chimp carrying her infant. I'm not 100% sure but I think it might be Layla and one of her juveniles following her. I think the triangular balding, whitish beard etc. fit. There's one really good still of her but when moving she looks more like the Layla we know. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ
    It's six months after we've seen her with the infant carrying ventrally so I think it might ride on her back by now.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I don't really see any resemblance here. Layla face is wider and her white beard more prominent.

    But the young male adolescent might be the same as the one in ACP000d2mt / ACP000d2mu: light face, pronounced, flat brows, and even more light ears close to the head. Back view agrees, too.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    I also think that we see with these cameras a different community of chimps. I would be surprised to see Layla here.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Iยดm not sure about Layla in ACP000dz3m . To me Layla looks a bit older, her muzzle more square and body build in general a bit more robust. Infants size fit though. I think we have a new female & inf: GSFem29 & GSInf29 ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Left: Layla in ACP000czgt , right, GSFem29 in ACP000dz3m :
    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks Anja, GSJuv09 ( ACP000dz3m ) and GSJuv09b ( ACP000d2mt / ACP000d2mu ) .

    I could agree on this match, but need more opinions ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    From what we see those juveniles could be a match but I think we don't see enough to really be sure. The movement in ACP000dz3m is too fast to make out clear features I think.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks Heidi for weighing in ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000czif - this looks like Layla with infant. Jana seems to wait (also in ACP000czib)

    EDIT: The juvenile is difficult as I now think - in contrast to my video comments - that the female in the unclassified ACP000czi5 is not Vala, but rather Flores (grayer legs, straighter brow ridge, and left hand injury). That means the dark-nosed juvenile can be hers. We discussed this possibility also for ACP000d37y.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Absolutely,

    I agree that we have Layla and GSInf25, and that the juvenile looks more like Flores juvenile instead of Jana. As you say, Flores is seen in ACP000czi5.

    Thanks.

    The juvenile following Flores ( GSJuv13 ) is going to need a name. What about @Orohena?

    Posted

  • Orohena by Orohena in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Hi all !

    I was thinking about Fowey for GSJuv13.
    I tried to check if there was something similar in the master list but I think it is ok ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Orohena's comment.

    Thanks for "foweying" us @Orohena ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Fowey is great!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    In direct comparison with ACP000d5a1 (Layla and Jana), I suggest the same for ACP000d5ct (adult female might be Layla) and ACP000d5cu (juvenile might be Jana). It's the same camera and all traits (although only backview) of the female fit and the juvenile (with face view in a distance) fit, too.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, you are right. Thanks Anja ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000dxem (found by @Snorticus): we can see Layla and her infant for sure walking first (compare her white beard) and following might be Siena (prominent balding and brownish face).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, thanks.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    There's this clip ACP000cwuu of an obviously pregnant chimp lady with a grey back in November 2012. I'm not very familiar with Layla but I think this could be her. We see her and her family on this hill four days later in ACP000cxdo so the context might fit. The infant she gets somewhen in between November and March 2013.

    enter image description here

    Three days later in ACP000cwzi I think we see the same female again followed by a juvenile in ACP000cwzj. I'm not sure but it could be Jana I think (no good still).

    enter image description here

    On November 7th same place, same female in ACP000cx65? Again followed by a juvenile in ACP000cx69. Bad quality, pls. see videos.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    In between the 2 scenes above, on November 5th, we see a curious juvenile in ACP000cx5a ACP000cx5b ACP000cx5c ACP000cx5d.

    Stills are not very good better seen in video. Could this be Jana?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Here's another unidentified juvenile of which I think is Jamie in ACP000cwcu

    enter image description here

    One minute later going into the other direction in ACP000cwdo?

    enter image description here

    Compare to Jamies backside in ACP000dlrt

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    Definitely Jamie in ACP000cwcu. Compare Jamie in ACP000d384 (first image on right) with ACP000cwcu:

    enter image description here
    enter image description here

    I'm a little less certain with ACP000cwdo but it does seem likely that this is her (labeled as unknown in the known chimp list, but sure looks like a female in some of the videos) as well.

    Posted

  • Buzharevski by Buzharevski scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I agree on the Jamie comparison in ACP000cwcu, and I think it's safe to assume that it's Jamie again in the folownig video.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to Buzharevski's comment.

    Thanks Antonio. Any opinions about the pregnant lady further up on this page in different clips beeing Layla?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Buzharevski's comment.

    I don't want necessarily disagree, but without any context, we should be sure that she is not Aurora. Compare her in b/w footage in ACP000d3t6 and ACP000dx8r. Aurora is the same group and size. She might have a have a bigger swelling (rounder), but also lots of white tuft. I think, we need to rule her out before deciding.

    Posted

  • Buzharevski by Buzharevski scientist, moderator in response to Buzharevski's comment.

    I agree for Layla in ACP000cwuu and ACP000cwzi, and for Jana in ACP000cwzj.

    Not sure about ACP000cx65 and ACP000cx69.

    And the juvenile in ACP000cx5a, ACP000cx5b, ACP000cx5c and ACP000cx5d does not look like Jana to me. I feel like Jana has a lighter and more elongated face.

    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun in response to AnLand's comment.

    I think we can rule out Aurora in ACP000cwcu - she is a tad bigger, her head hair is longer, she is a bit more robust and her eyebrows are more protruded. Everything is finer for Jamie. And the swelling and tuft looks different, I agree.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Anja, I know what you mean but there IS context. At the end of ACP000cwcu we see that Jamie is probably plucking something from the tree and in the very next minute in ACP000cwdo she just walks back up the hill. If it was some minutes apart then I would agree that it might be another juvenile but like this...

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Anybody for Layla in ACP000cwuu and ACP000cwzi, and for Jana in ACP000cwzj so we'd get a third vote? Thanks ๐Ÿ˜„

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I had no doubt that this is the same female juvenile in both video. I can see the context, too. ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    My issue was whether we can see without a family around whether it's Jamie or Aurora. But meanwhile @midnightsun made a good comparison of the big juveniles here https://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000v/discussions/DCP0002vq1 and I can see what she means with the longer hair and broader face for Aurora, maybe even thicker brows. Jamie has finer features ("zarter gebaut").

    Together with this linked discussion it got clearer to me.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Ok, thanks Anja!

    We still need more opinions for videos ACP000cwuu and ACP000cwzi (Layla?) and ACP000cwzj (Jana?)
    Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Antonio and I still think these are Layla in ACP000cwuu and ACP000cwzi and Jana in ACP000cwzj.

    Anyone else want to weigh in to be able to close the deal? Thanks!

    Posted