Chimp & See Talk

Katie and Noel, Pando: injured female?

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I am not sure about this, but having - I think - found again #GSMale03 in ACP000droh / ACP000droi, I am thinking about whether the gray-backed female has an injured right hand, too. It looks somehow crippled or missing fingers, but I cannot get a clear look.

    ACP000droi

    enter image description here

    I was looking into this, because the individual behind the tree in ACP000ds5l - also has some missing fingers or in general a damaged hand.

    Hand on the fallen tree (better seen in video)

    enter image description here

    Some face view. There is some baldness, ears are undamaged ...

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    According to the spreadsheet, the sequence of ACP000ds5l (on January 31, 2013) seems to be longer and she is probably the same individual behind the tree in ACP000ds3h and ACP000drrq; and maybe also the gray-backed female in ACP000drmd. This does not add much additional information, but the left ear and the half face view looks also similar.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000ds5p Here it looks like she has a thumb but the fingers seem to be missing on the right hand & not visible when she lifts the hand to her face either. I don't think they are curled under but rather are not there. Agree with @AnLand on this gal.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    I agree with you that this lady´s fingers are missing, rather than curled. And I´m also sure that she is the same one in all these videos:

    ACP000droh / ACP000droi: 19.12.2012

    ACP000drrq / ACP000drmd / ACP000ds5l / ACP000ds3h : 31.01.2013

    ACP000ds5p

    I would say that we have another match here. We don´t get to see her right hand in every video, but I see the same protruding brows and baldness.

    Anja, you have found her in two different sequences, would you like to name her?

    thanks!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    It seems that @Corcaroli found her again in ACP000dlwl - and as I was looking whether something in that scene indicates that the juvenile is her's (there are juveniles around in both other scenes), I made a sweet discovery: ACP000dlwi shows that she got a newborn baby (it's July 2013, so half a year after both other scenes). How cute!

    Let's name her Katie after a scientist I really like: Katie Hinde (organizer of the March Mammal Madness).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks Anja!!

    what a cute tiny thing!!! 😃

    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    In video ACP000dr92, the female that goes behind the log might be Katie. Her right hand misses fingers, but the thumb is there. She also has a grey back and the face just looks like her.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.

    Yes, you are right! She has already been identified in ACP000dr91 (the clip before yours).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thank you guys!! yes, she is Katie 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thanks @Snorticus , and we have GSFem11, GSInf11 and GSJuv04 too 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @Dustwolf found Katie again - the first regular video with her newborn in July 2013: ACP000dmbz. I can't see her hand, but the face view shows clearly that it's her.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think the older female in this scene with Petra is Katie (all from November 15th, 2012)

    ACP000dtex (entering from back)

    ACP000dtmo (on the right) / ACP000dtmq / ACP000dtmt / ACP000dss8

    enter image description here

    ACP000dtb3 (on the left, with a juvenile)

    some videos in between where I do not see her

    ACP000dtjd (injured right hand seen)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks @AnLand,

    I agree that these are all Katie:

    ACP000dmbz = Katie

    ACP000dtex , ACP000dtmo / ACP000dtmq / ACP000dtmt / ACP000dss8 , ACP000dtb3 , ACP000dtjd .

    You can see her hand (missing fingers) in ACP000dtmt (behind the tree, right hand) :

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I am just adding some videos from the official list that should be part of the "newborn sequence" and with her juvenile around: ACP000dmef, ACP000dmeh, ACP000dlwi (juvenile looks rather male to me), ACP000dmjp, ACP000dmjr

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    So Katie has been seen with GSJuv04 in some videos, here:

    ACP000ds1o
    ACP000ds1q
    ACP000ds5j
    ACP000ds5l
    ACP000ds5p

    and Anja has found him/her again in :

    ACP000dlwl

    (discussed in https://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000v/discussions/DCP0002290 )

    Anja, what about a name? or a namer? 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I posted some minutes ago here, and it should be "him", I think.

    I can't name anymore at Green Snowflake ... what about @Singing_Ginger - she found and tagged several videos in the last sites?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks Anja 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000dtj7 - looks also like Katie.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Did you agree to these videos posted above and the juvenile being a male: ACP000dmef, ACP000dmeh, ACP000dlwi (juvenile looks rather male to me), ACP000dmjp, ACP000dmjr ?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Yes, I agree to both: Katie in the videos that you mention, and GSJuv04=male 😃

    thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    From the official chimps list: ACP000dmgd - Katie and her newborn

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thanks!

    Posted

  • Singing_Ginger by Singing_Ginger

    I've suggested the name 'Noel' for Katie's infant. It's nearly Christmas after all.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Singing_Ginger's comment.

    Oh, I love Noel for her juvenile. Great choice!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Singing_Ginger's comment.

    I love Noel !!

    thanks sooooo much 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    More an idea: ACP000dlxu - Katie (gray back, newborn, no proper hand?) and her juvenile (Noel)?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Could be, at least the size, shape and tuft of the juvenile seem to fit only the back of the female seems to be too dark to be Katie. But maybe it's just the shadowy light that makes it seem so dark?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    More from Katie:

    ACP000dn58

    enter image description here

    ACP000dmbx

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hmmm, I am not sure about ACP000dlxu having Katie, as Heidi says, Katie back looks lighter to me too 😕

    but I agree on ACP000dn58 and ACP000dmbx , thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000dtb4 - this looks like Katie's hand

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Katie in the back. Damaged hand quite well seen in ACP000dmyd. The juvenile should be Noel. Later the other adult is identified as Petra.

    ACP000dmyd
    ACP000dmzq
    ACP000dmwh
    ACP000dmwk
    ACP000dn80
    ACP000dn84
    ACP000dn86
    ACP000dmyq
    ACP000dmyr
    ACP000dmyt
    ACP000dmyv
    ACP000dmvo
    ACP000dmvs
    ACP000dn3l
    ACP000dn3n
    ACP000dn09
    ACP000dn74
    ACP000dn5m
    ACP000dn5n
    ACP000dn9x
    ACP000dn2a
    ACP000dmu2
    ACP000dn3v
    ACP000dnck
    ACP000dn0o
    ACP000dmz8
    ACP000dn8h
    ACP000dn1f
    ACP000dn1h

    I think this is all the same sequence with these three (not all always present) until Petra leaves in ACP000dn1h

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thanks Anja 😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.

    ACP000dmyg - @Batfan found more of this sequence of Katie, Petra, and Noel.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thanks Dawna 😃

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    Not sure who else is with her, but this looks like Katie here: ACP000drf1 ACP000drf2 ACP000drf3 ACP000drf4

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    thanks Laura, yes, that´s Katie...not sure about the other three, let´s see if we get more videos of this series.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The other chimps in ACP000drf1 ACP000drf2 ACP000drf3 ACP000drf4 are most likely Katies juvenile Noel (in front) and Jemila and GSInf11 behind Katie. They all have been confirmed in sequences before and after this one, within the same hour. We can see Jemilas face in ACP000drf4 and also the infant looks very much like hers even if I cannot make out the white point. The quality of this sequence is not very good.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    @Corcaroli found Katie here - ACP000dkr1 - @Boleyn found her here - ACP000dkr3 - you can see her injured right hand and face in unclassified ACP000dkr4 Not sure who the far left adult is.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks Heidi, you are right 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    Thanks Dawna!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    In videos ACP000dn6l and ACP000dn6r I think we have Katie and Noel (Anja suggested it in 6l as well).

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000ds4x - ACP000ds51 - Katie & Noel suggested by @AnLand Her injured hand easily seen when she gestures across the log toward the juvenile.

    ACP000dr93 - Katie Noel & Petra (tagged in ACP000dr92 )

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    I'd like to add ACP000ds4v to @Snorticus first series, ACP000dr93 is tagged! 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thanks ladies 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Video ACP000dks6 found by @Batfan and proposals from @Snorticus in ACP000dks8 and @AnLand in ACP000dksa for Katie in front and Petra in the back. It's about 20 minutes after confirmed Katie-video ACP000dkr3 so we need your opinion, Nuria 😃 Thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    yes, the good old couple 😃

    thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Since we have no separate thread for Noel I just post it here. I think this is Noel in videos ACP000dm6d ACP000dm6f ACP000dm6h ACP000dm6j

    Katie is seen here about 20 minutes later and the image looks like Noel 😃

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    yessss 😃 I agree, this is Noel

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    ACP000dm6k

    Katie (with infant) and Noel?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    Yes! the juvenile, female and the infant size make sense:

    Katie and family in ACP000dlwi :

    enter image description here

    and ACP000dm6k :

    enter image description here

    The one leaving is Petra (confirmed in the sequence). You can see Katie´s injured hand in the first video of the sequence ACP000dmb2

    Thanks Laura 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The female walking away in ACP000dn03 looks like Katie (pregnant, injured right hand) and Noel is already confirmed.

    Edit: just realized: ACP000dmb2 needs confirmation as well.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    yes, Katie pregnant 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I found now two good videos of Katie's back view after having the infant to support my claim for ACP000dlxu: ACP000dmed and ACP000dmfo. I think the light difference accounts well for the here darker hair. In both other videos the light is stronger, now it's cloudy (and she looks a little wet). She is followed by Noel. The swelling is considerably smaller than before birth.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, it makes sense. Thanks 😃

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    ACP000dn28
    Katie, infant and Noel?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    I don't think that's Katie in ACP000dn28. Her infant would be only days old (if already born) and Noel has a darker face and is smaller. From the face view, I think that's Cleo, her big infant, and the juvenile is Jamie.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Laura, Katie´s newborn ist seen for the first time in July 2013, and this infant in ACP000dn28 is too big.

    Like Anja, I would go for Cleo and co. too, what do you think?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yup, Cleo and family for me too 😃

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    I haven't been keeping up with more recent IDs. I agree with Cleo now 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    Great! thanks 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    This juvenile looks like Noel and I think he's "talking" to Katie in ACP000dri2 and ACP000dri4.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    do you think that the female passing by is Katie? I think I can see all her right fingers 😕

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I don't think this is Katie. She always has a bigger swelling and this female seems to carry a ventral infant. Katie does not have an infant in January 2013. Compare Katie's back here: ACP000ds6v (I only picked the first one I saw. Status of swelling probably don't agree.)

    Edit: Might she be Vala?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000drnx - this is Katie on January 6th. Same day.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    What about GSJuv10? he is slightly smaller than Noel, and seen with Siena and Katie. What do you think?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Oh my I'm starting to mix up the chimps, sorry. Yes, GSJuv10 would be also a possibility. So the female passing by with a vetntral infant would then be Siena, right?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Here with ACP000dr0b and ACP000dl58 two videos with Siena's back and swelling. Might be OK. Vala would be a bit grayer and the back more rounded, I guess.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    so do we all agree on Siena + GSInf02 + GSJuv10 in ACP000dri2 ?

    I do 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Yes. 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    lovely!

    so now we need a name for GSJuv10...what about @Hanibal94? s/he still didn´t name any chimp at GS and has been helping a lot at classifying, and started some discussions.

    @Hanibal94 , would you like to give us a name for GSJuv10, the juvenile seen with Siena? ACP000dri2 :

    enter image description here

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • Hanibal94 by Hanibal94

    Thanks @NuriaM! I feel honored!

    How about "Pando"? It's not taken (I checked the Master List), sounds like a good chimp name, and gender-neutral (since the juvenile's gender is unknown)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Hanibal94's comment.

    great!

    Pando sounds perfect, thank you @Hanibal94 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    That's a very good chimp name, @Hanibal94, I like it!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000dlnn - these look like Petra (based on swelling and stocky upper body), Noel, and Katie (based on injured right hand).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Yes, that´s Petra´s swelling. Agreed on Katie and Noel too.

    Thanks.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    There's a second chimp leaving the frame at the very right in ACP000dshv. Given the color of the back and a probable swelling and because of look of the juvenile, I would say this is Noel and Katie leaving. Next in sequence ACP000dshw ACP000dshx ACP000dshy

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I am missing Katie's very protruded swelling and she is not this gray (but for the latter, it might be that the camera mode is responsible). And the juvenile does not really look like Noel. Hm.

    Edit: Don't you think that this is rather Fanny with Blondie leaving (here the gray and very small swelling would fit) who have been here ca. 40 minutes before in ACP000dsku? I think Fanny would also fit this juvenile better.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I think she looks more like Blondie than Katie. There´s not much seen, but the light rear speaks for Blondie:

    left ACP000dshv , right Blondie in ACP000drmh :

    enter image description here enter image description here

    Also, the juvenile looks like Fanny as well 😕

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Of course you are both right, sorry! I'm fighting a bad virus at the moment and it obviously affects my view. 😕

    Fanny has that very bright muzzle and also the balding fits and there's only one female with such a bright back.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    oh no, not a virus! go right now to bed and get well soon...

    and thanks 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Thanks Nuria, but I cannot "chimp" in my bed 😕 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The juvenile in videos ACP000dma4 ACP000dma5 ACP000dma6 ACP000dma7 and ACP000dm1q ACP000dm1r (same sequence) looks like Noel and needs confirmation.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    More of Noel in ACP000dmgf suggested already by Anja in comments and supported by me.

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I agree with Noel for all of the ACP000dm... series as well as ACP000dmgf

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    yesss

    Posted