Chimp & See Talk

**Frinton: Match proposal for unclear adult

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think this is the same individual in ACP000drwf / ACP000drwg and ACP000dqyx and ACP000dsmr. I am not sure about the sex. My first thought was male, but I can't see anything at the moment to support this. The individual has a gray back, is rather lean, straight brows, some baldness. Personally, I find the right ear is very similar and close to the head.

    I hope I did not miss a proposal about this in the last weeks ... I also did not check all videos from these days (January 6th and 13th, 2013) for more footage yet.

    ACP000drwg

    enter image description here

    ACP000dqyx

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I also think that these two guys do look the same. But I would like to discuss before a bit about the sex...

    checking the list, I would say that s/he comes in the scene in ACP000drlx . But I´m not sure, as there are some gaps in between the videos. This would be the sequence:

    ACP000drlx
    ACP000drlz
    ACP000dr9w
    ACP000dqyx
    ACP000drtb
    ACP000dro4
    ACP000dro6
    ACP000dsmr
    ACP000ds78

    if it is the same individual and if it is true that s/he comes in in ACP000drlx , it really looks like a male to me 😕

    What do you think?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Yes, ACP000drlx looks male to me.

    I also stumbled about ACP000cw8x / ACP000cw8z / ACP000cw91 / ACP000cw92 and this male (here without any doubt) looks similar, too. Straight brows, shadowy eyes, flat forehead with balding, gray back and legs. Body build would fit. It's a bit dark, though.

    enter image description here

    ACP000cw9j is the next minute.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thank you Anja,

    ACP000drwf / ACP000drwg : #GSMale12

    ACP000drlx ACP000drlz ACP000dr9w ACP000dqyx ACP000drtb ACP000dro4 ACP000dro6 ACP000dsmr ACP000ds78 : #GSMale12b

    ACP000cw8x / ACP000cw8z / ACP000cw91 / ACP000cw92 / ACP000cw9j : #GSMale12c

    I agree that GSMale12 = GSMale12b,

    left GSMale12 in ACP000drwf , right GSMale12b in ACP000dqyx :

    enter image description here

    and would go for an in-depth check of GSMale12c: this one is a bit too dark and tricky, but I would like to leave it open for discussion...

    GSMale12c in ACP000cw8z

    enter image description here

    any more thoughts?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Hi Nuria, I think the comment description in ACP000dro4 and ACP000dro6 should be GSMale12b on the log (not in front).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ups, yes you are right (testes seen).

    I was just a bit confused by the female being so rude to her poor baby in ACP000dro4 (a mom would never do that 😄 )

    thanks 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thanks Nuria! Well she just doesn't want to lie on the little one and has to push it away. Maybe the male wouldn't care? 😃

    Oh and btw I think the female in this sequence with GSMale12b is Jemila with her infant (GSInf11).

    Videos ACP000drlx ACP000drlz ACP000dr9w ACP000dqyx ACP000drtb ACP000dro4 ACP000dro6

    Same sturdy built, round head, baldness, ears and brows all in line with Jemila. She also has a grey neck but more around the neck in contrary to Flores who has a straight, wide strand of grey down her neck. Additionally this lady here (luckily) has all her fingers like Jemila does.

    In ACP000dr9w I'm not sure whether the chimp behind the log is GSMale12b or Jemila. They must be both around because in the yet unclassified videos in this minute we can sometimes see a hand on the tree stump, so the chimp there must be between stump and log. Since the infant enters the log from behind and slips back there after a time I assume that the chimp behind the log is it's mother. Make sense?

    The lady I think is Jemila
    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    yes, could be...they are very alike. For the moment she is going to be #GSFem18 😃

    Left, Jemila in ACP000ds1o , right, GSFem18 in ACP000drtb :

    enter image description here

    their eye area looks very similar, bald pattern, also wide nose and oval muzzle (Fem18 is chewing).

    the only doubt that I have is that Jemila´s infant looks a bit bigger? 😕

    Jemila´s infant in ACP000ds3o

    enter image description here

    and GSFem18´s infant in ACP000drtb

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    In ACP000dr9w , I can see mom´s hand behind the infant´s little "booty" (you can see it moves in the still unclassified ACP000dr9y ):

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Thanks for the arrow, Nuria 😃

    As for the infant: I think they have about the same size. In ACP000ds3o (Jemilas') it's shortly standing on her side and closer to the camera, this might be the reason that it looks bigger. Other than that they both have those almost white, sticking out ears.

    But what I just detected is that white spot on the head of the infant a little on the right side. You can see it in all the videos e.g. in ACP000drtb with GSFem18 when it's looking down and in the Jemila video ACP000ds3o when it enters her side. So it can't be any debris.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Absolutely!!

    I was a bit confused about the size, but you are right, and the distinctive white spot makes it clear.

    Thanks Heidi, great detective work!! 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Let's go back to GSMale12 here. I think the chimp walking away in ACP000dn4o looks a lot like GSMale12 and 12b Although I think he's a bit piloerect in this clip, certainly at the arms, the traits seem to fit: small triangular balding, broad nostrils, almost straight brows, gray back. In some of the 12b videos we can also see bushy ellbows.

    I know the pics are not the perfect comparison but still I think I recognize him. What do others think?

    Chimp in ACP000dn4o

    enter image description here

    GSMale12

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    oh, they really look very similar. GSMale12d

    what do you guys think?:

    left to right: GSMale12 ACP000drwf , GSMale12b ACP000drta , GSMale12d ACP000dn4o :

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • hoothoot by hoothoot

    This could be GSMale12 as well.

    Same straight brows, flat head that makes it difficult to say whether there is balding and grey back

    ACP000dg2q

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Hmm. To me it seems GSMale12d has a distinctive button/bump in the center of his bald spot I'm not seeing in the other 2. The brows also appear slightly different.

    I do think 12 and 12b are likely the same animal though.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to hoothoot's comment.

    @hoothoot, same here: the traits would fit, but unfortunately the group doesn't 😕 This b/w footage is from the "visiting" Ngogo chimps.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.

    Laura, I see what you mean. Could this bump be something temporary, maybe an insect bite or a little lesion? Because except for that I'm still convinced that all the GSMale12s are one and the same chimp. It's the only male of group one with which we still have some ID-problems. All others are quite clear and IDed.

    Bump on bald spot:

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    enter image description here ACP000dn4o

    Doesn´t the hairline beside the cheaks look very similar to the other too? Also the contour of the fur around the face? And there is a little shade left from the balding that looks similar too. So he seems to have the same haircut. Ears stick very close to the head on all three. Muzzle shape and the white contouring it coming up to the nose seem to fit.

    I won´t vote for it as I´m still not an expert, but to me they all three look like the same individual.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    Thank you Heike! Yes that's what I meant, all traits absolutely fit, same muzzle, same browline, same nose, same ears, same haircut 😃 = same chimp!

    Posted

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    Yes the bump could be temporary or not show up in the others due to lighting. I do agree that the hairline is the same. Facial features are also pretty convincing. I'd be willing to say they are all the same chimp 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Yes, i agree to that match - but excluding the Ngogo chimp in ACP000dg2q.

    We might want to look again in GSMale23, too. As I already proposed here: https://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000v/discussions/DCP0002diz

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I know I was not agreeing to your proposal when you first posted it but we can always revisit our decisions, can't we? 😃
    In the meantime I made up my mind and agree now on ACP000d37y as a match to GSMale12ff.

    Maybe you could merge these two threads into one?

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    enter image description here enter image description here

    ACP000d37y .............................. ACP000dn4o

    yes, it´s his hairline 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    Yes, this looks convincing, doesn't it? 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Heidi, I would not merge these threads as the postings would be intertwined and we will have problems to make sense of this. The threads are already old and long, so merging them would be chaotic.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    ok, no problem Anja.

    Nuria, what do you think, could we now definitely match all the GSMale12 chimps?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Yay!!! this is great! what a beautiful and constructive discussion here. Thank you ladies:

    GSMale12 = GSMale12b = GSMale12d = GSMale23

    Anyone has a special interest in naming this handsome guy?

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    May I?? In the dining log scene: all the males surrounding the table and coming towards the camera from behind remind me of Freddy Frinton wobbling round and round the table. That is why I would love to name him Frinton if it´s ok with you all? 😮)

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    GSMale12c:

    enter image description here

    Yakini ACP000dmmn .........................GSMale12c ACP000cw8z ..............Yakini ACP000dr62

    As this doesn´t look very convincing, I´m coming from behind:

    enter image description here

    Yakini ACP000czeu ..........................................Yakini ACP000doir

    GSMale12c ACP000cw8z .............................. Yakini proposed ACP000doda

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    LOL - Frinton is a great name for him although this dinner is not only for one 😄

    Good observation, Heike! I love it when you dive deep into the details!

    I agree that they have a very similar back coloring. The reason why GSMale12c can't be Yakini is mainly because of his built. Yakini is very massive with a big belly and broad waistline which should be more obvious if he was GSMale12c in ACP000cw8z The face in ACP000cw8z looks quite similar too but there are small differences like the more protruding brows and the shorter face and less protruding muzzle.

    The wide waist and big belly are both seen in ACP000doda along with a longer face when he turns his a head a little, therefore I'm quite sure it's Yakini who waits for a third vote, Nuria already agreed 😃

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    Yes, this sounds convincing, GSMale12c seems to be less heavy and he has more protruding brows. After having reviewed some videos I agree to Yakini in ACP000doda and not Yakini in ACP000cw8z .

    What about this?

    enter image description here

    GSMale12d ACP000dn4o .............................................................................. GSMale12c ACP000cw8z

    enter image description here

    GSMale12b ACP000dro2 .................................................................................GSMale12c ACP000cw8z

    Is GSMale12c a match to the other 12s like AnLand suggested? We have the lighter bodybuild, more protruding brows, less protruding muzzle and the nose seems to fit?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I think GSMale12 could be a match to all the other 12s but maybe Nuria was not convinced because the video is quite dark and we have seen also chimps from the other group there.

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    Thanks for your hint 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    Oh thanks, Heike, I was mesmerized by the pics and haven't noted your first line 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    By now his new name, Frinton, got a bit burried in the thread. Maybe Nuria will still collect him in a group and add him to the known list or another SciMod will do it. We need to be a bit patient, thanks!

    Posted