Chimp & See Talk

Mona: Who are they? new patrol group.

  • lauraklynn by lauraklynn moderator

    ACP000d563 & ACP000d565

    As @Snorticus points out, at least some do not appear to match anyone currently identified at GS. The first individual seems a bit familiar to me, although I cannot place him/her:

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I also cannot recognize someone (but we also did not see for instance Gaia with one of the other chimps from the fallen tree site and the water source).

    I doubt about Sal. We never did see her with an infant and she is missing her hand completely. And even if this footage is indeed earlier (so the injury is not present yet), I don't see such a strong resemblance. Sal's face is still narrower.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Does this location have more than one band of chimps? Or possibly it's just a neighboring band passing through the edge of the territory? Whatever the case, these faces are pretty interesting.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    Well, we already know that we have (on the edge) a habituated chimp community, see this discussion. We'd never seen a researcher (except for camera maintenance) with Cassini and Co. So, they are probably a different community.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hmmmm...assuming that the three individuals in ACP000d563 ( ACP000d565 is still unclassified) are males, what do you think about:

    first ind. walking: GSMale11?

    left GSMale11 in ACP000d8uv , right ACP000d563

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    2nd ind. walking; we have some white-headed males in GS, but I was thinking of GSMale05b (GSMale05´s legs are lighter than this new individual):

    left, GSMale05b in ACP000dvu6 , right ACP000d563

    enter image description here

    I know that this one is veeeeery daring, but I just wanted to point out that in the case of this new guy, only his (?) head seems to be white like GSMale05b and unlike the other white-headed males, that have white hind legs too 😕

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ...and no idea about the last adolescent walking.

    This is not an emphatic match proposal, just wanted to rule out some individuals in our list before giving them a new tempID.

    We might as well have a new group of chimps 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Now for no. 1 I would rather go with GSMale10 than GSMale11 but thanks for pointing me there! 😃
    The new one's right ear does stick out a little and the left one even more, the brow's shape looks very similar, v-shaped nose, balding and overall color fits as well. I think he's also more the leader type than GSMale 11 which seems to be a bit younger?

    Left: the new guy, right GSMale10

    enter image description here

    The white headed guy looks different, less white overall and escpecially because he's walking with open muzzle. 5b might fit but the video is not good enough to be sure.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000d561 - has been classified so the date is 11-01-2012 with more views of the new guy. GSMale11 and GSMale10 both look very similar to the new guy, but new guy's nostrils may be smaller? Wish he was closer to the camera to get a better look at the ears etc.

    I don't recall seeing many clips from this camera position so maybe we'll get more info from this location.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    yes, you are right about GSMale10´s ears!! these two guys (10 and 11) are pretty similar :S

    for the moment, first ind. is #GSMale10b , second #GSMale16 and the third one #GSMale17

    Dawna, I see what you mean about the nostrils, but could they look smaller in GSMale10b as a result of a different light and pixelation?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to NuriaM's comment.

    The nostril difference could be a clip-quality thing for sure so I didn't feel confident enough to have a definite opinion but wanted to express why 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    And I thank you for that 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000cxrg - could the guy close to the camera in the end be GSMale10b? Not sure, but there are similarities.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    wow, great find Anja!!

    I think this should be the same group of GSMale10b, might be a patrol. I would even say that the guy in the centre with light face could be GSMale17, what do you think?

    GSMale10b in ACP000d563 :

    enter image description here

    male in ACP000cxrg :

    enter image description here

    same body build, face color, small roundish bald patch, triangular muzzle.

    Also, the light-faced, dark-cheeked guy in the same video ACP000cxrg :

    enter image description here

    and GSMale17 in ACP000d563

    enter image description here

    so I agree with you Anja, and would even look deep into this new group 😃

    thoughts?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    First things first, before I go into the GSmale10b thing: The one with the light face and dark cheeks in ACP000cxrg is a lady with a dark back and a well visible swelling. So far I couldn't make out any swelling on GSMale17's greyish backside 😉

    GSmale10b has been proposed to be GSMale10, now Dick. When I look at the new guy in ACP000cxrg I think I can see a similar irregularity in his left brow as in Dicks'. It's a little knob on the highest point of the brow. Also the line of the brows, the grey hairs in the beard, muzzle color and v-shaped nostrils are similar I think.

    enter image description here

    Dick:
    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    I'm not sure whether GSMale10b has this knob as well but then it's not seen at every angle so it's still possible that they are all the one and only Dick! 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    On behalf of @HeikeW I just want to post here ACP000d57l - a young, light-faced female - that just made my point here today. It is the same day, only minutes later, than GSMale10b. So, they belong together. The young female is in my opinion none of our identified females and @HeikeW should definitely name her!

    We need to solve the GSMale10b question nevertheless and with that the group question. GSMale10b and the new male posted by me, as well as the young light-faced female are seen not with Cassini's / Vala's group but at locations where we do see them (Jamie, Layla, Eliot), while Dick is not.

    Great find @HeikeW!!!!!!

    ACP000d57l

    enter image description here

    ACP000cxrg

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    The one with the light face and dark cheeks in ACP000cxrg is a lady with a dark back and a well visible swelling ...

    OMG, what a boob!!! LOL 😄 . Sorry, I just focused on the face, and forgot about the butt, sorry, my bad!. Thanks Heidi for pointing this out. Yes a young lady, and yes, I agree on Anja´s match:

    left ACP000cxrg , right ACP000d57l :

    enter image description here

    @HeikeW , would you like to give us a name for this light-faced lady? 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    As for GSMale10b/Dick, I have my doubts about Dick here.
    I see small differences in their faces like the brows shape and baldness. Dick´s nostrils look bigger to me and his eyes a bit more embedded. Also, Dick´s lower lip is longer:

    Lef to to right: ACP000cxrg / GSMale10b in ACP000d563 / Dick in ACP000cyi6

    enter image description here

    I believe in a match between the first two, but would exclude Dick. What do you guys think?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Oh Nuria, don't I know that! It happens to all of us to sometimes neglect the most obvious traits 😃

    I really can't tell more about the males: to me they look like triplets in different light: same browline, same balding, same a little sticking out ears, whitish beard, long muzzle, deep set eyes, color of overall hair.... 😕

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    Many thanks to all of you for giving a beginner on this website like me the chance of naming the new beautiful female. i would like to call her "Mona".
    HeikeW

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to HeikeW's comment.

    Mona is a lovely name for this chimp, @HeikeW Welcome to Chimp & See 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I love MONA, thanks a lot and welcome to C&S!!!!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    ACP000cxre /
    ACP000cxrg /
    ACP000cxri : GSMale25

    I think we agree on GSMale25 = GSMale10b, right?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi Nuria, please pay attention that you exclude for the Mona tag group "mona_monkey" as we have some wrong tags here and will probably have some more when we go back to West Africa. Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, I have already noticed and fixed it, thanks Anja 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    uhm....yes I think we do 😃

    @Corcaroli found another video ACP000dxcz with two male chimps. Unfortunately they cross quite quickly and there's no clear still of the first one. But I really think he's sticking out his tongue towards the camera 😃 seen around second 2.

    The second chimp looks again like a sibling to the discussed males (10b, 25...) When you stop the video around second 4 you might find an even better still.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Absolutely!! thanks Heidi, you´ve catched him again 😃

    Anja, you have proposed this match, would you like to name him or to propose a namer?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000dxcz - this should be Bohr. We need to careful with this. We did see - at the moment - only the Cassini/Vala group at this camera. I rather see Bohr here.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I´m not sure about Bohr here. Bohr´s nostrils look much smaller, and his face is a bit rounder:

    Bohr in ACP000d129 :

    enter image description here

    ACP000dxcz

    enter image description here

    and GSMale25 in ACP000cxrg :

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    I know that we are thinking that we have different groups here (two or three), so that not all chimps can be found on all cameras and Mona has not been seen with Cassini's nor with Vivie's group, but I stumbled upon ACP000d989 and the adolescent looks like her. Unfortunately, this is the last video of the minute (before we see Yoana) and she doesn't come closer.

    (There is another adolescent following Yoana in ACP000d988 that looks different, I think.)

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.

    hm, the juvenile in ACP000d989 looks like Mona to me too.

    More thoughts?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I comment here why I think that this is not Mona in ACP000d989 (too small, wrong person at wrong camera).

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thanks Anja, I commented in the same thread as you to keep the arguments together although it's still about Mona. But it's also about the entire group so no problem with that 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I am thinking whether I found a match for the first chimp in this group. I think male, older looking, deep eyes, beard, somehow a small head ... But I am not sure.

    ACP000d561

    enter image description here

    ACP000cues

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    There is later on this day (many hours later) a juvenile with an uneven face coloration in ACP000cufj and there is also one in ACP000d565 (walking before the female with infant).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Could be...

    ACP000d561 : GSMale30

    ACP000cues : GSMale30b

    GSMale30b´s head looks a bit more square to me, but it might be as well the light/color.

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    enter image description here
    ACP000d563
    enter image description here
    ACP000dhc2

    Can those two be the same male? They both seem to have a problem with the mouth, which makes their facees look very long in a similar way.
    I took the second image from midnightsun´s great ftnd in the Blondie-discussion. So, if they were the same, would that mean that the Mona-group may be part of the Ngogo-chimps?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    I don't think that these are the same individuals. Both might be older males, but the face traits don't really agree. An open mouth usually is not enough to call it a match. The chimp in ACP000dhc2 seems to have a long and rather pale (brown) face. I don't see that in the other one whose face looks smaller, darker, and the hair on the head is quite whitish. It's hard to compare color with b/w mode, but I don't see really good similarities.

    That said, I think at the moment that the chimps from the other Mona sequence with Dick ( ACP000cxrg etc.) are Ngogo chimps. We matched Mona (but not Dick), so your sequence might also be Ngogo chimps, but I am not 100% sure.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    @HeikeW,

    like Anja, I don´t think these two guys are the same individual; ears are different, also thei shape and color of their faces.

    Thanks 😃

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    Oh well, I new that I tend to confuse faces with a similar expression. Thanks for your answers, some day I will find a match, I´m sure! 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    And not only one @HeikeW, there are many to come - that's what I'm sure of 😄

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    you will , @HeikeW ! you know, these two guys were actually very close to a match...b/w videos are really hard to everyone.

    please, keep trying!!

    thanks 😃

    Posted

  • hoothoot by hoothoot

    Could this be GSMale17 ? (or 19, I AM a bit confused)

    ACP000dgr4

    No visible balding, big ears, either big juvenile or smaller adult male

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Seen following at least one adult male with grey back and another adult individual with a grey back

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Could be...but according to the time stamp, I think this clip should belong to the first group of chimps (Vala´s group) and Male17 belongs to the second one (Gaia´s). I was thinking of Eliot, what do you think?

    look at Eliot in ACP000drtv :

    enter image description here

    The size fits, but I´m not that sure about the balding... 😕

    Posted

  • hoothoot by hoothoot

    I get why you think of Eliot and I do agree that it's hard to see whether the chimp in ACP000dgr4 starts to have balding later on like Eliot has.
    However, I think their ears are different. While Eliot's are close to the head, this chimp's ears stand off more, or maybe it's just the angle in 0:02 of the video.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    No, I don't think that these are chimps from group 1. The chimp in ACP000dgr4 is certainly not Eliot and the sequence before ACP000dgs1 and ACP000dgs3 doesn't show known chimps either. I rather think they belong to Mekas group.

    Posted

  • hoothoot by hoothoot in response to Boleyn's comment.

    So the male appearing at the beginning of ACP000dgs1 and ACP000dgs3 is Mekas ?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to hoothoot's comment.

    That would be the obvious question here, @hoothoot but I think he isn't although there are similarities. For one Mekas is a tall lean chimp while this one in ACP000dgs1 and ACP000dgs3 looks a bit heavier and less tall. The grey on Mekas back builds a sharp line with the black of his upper back while this one here seems to be gradient. And finally when we see his back there should be flashy long testies if it was Mekas but there aren't. So it's probably one of the other grey-backed unidentified males of the same group.

    Male from ACP000dgs3 and Mekas back:

    enter image description here
    enter image description here

    Posted