Chimp & See Talk

Is GSFem29 Gaia?

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I open a new thread for GSFem29 to not confuse the Layla thread anymore, but I just thought about whether she is actually Gaia and her infant. She is older, has a young infant, a narrow face, a white beard, gray back and slightly gray legs, almost straight brows, quite some balding ...

    GSFem29

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    Gaia

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    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I agree with you, I think GSFem29 is Gaia.

    And it should mean that GSJuv05 (Gaiaยดs juv) is GSJuv09 (GSFem29ยดs juv.), right? both are big male juveniles, have dark eye area but a light muzzle.

    thoughts?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    No, I actually don't think that GSJuv09 is GSJuv05. As some chimp before the female must have triggered the camera and there are others following, it would not be clear to me that they are necessarily a family. Also, GSJuv05 is not a full size adolescent. He is clearly a big juvenile, but does not have Gaia's size. In contrast, GSJuv09 is full size. He is even bigger than GSFem29, I believe.

    I've chosen two screenshots with almost the same posture and think that GSJuv05's body proportions are different (shorter legs compared to the upper body, for instance). I also think that his face colloration, especially the muzzle is lighter and the brows more rounded. GSJuv09 is older I think, based also on the butt view

    GSJuv05 (with Gaia behind him)

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    GSJuv09

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    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    hmmm, they really looked similar to me, but you are right about the sizes; GSJuv09 is as big as Gaia, while GSJuv05 is clearly smaller:

    Gaia and GSJuv09 in ACP000dz3m :

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    Gaia and GSJuv05 in ACP000d9k7 :

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    Thanks Anja!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I'm having doubts about GSJuv05 size in comparison to Gaia. In ACP000d9k7 he's in a crouch, not standing to his full height. Kinda trying to barge in on Gaia's delicious wood spot ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    They seem pretty similar sizes to me in stills below. Is it possible that GSJuv09 is a match as you suggested above and @Boleyn puts forward in the other thread?

    https://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000v/discussions/DCP0002ilp

    ACP000d9k1 - 05 seated beside Gaia.

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    ACP000d9jy - Their heads & ears seem a similar size

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    ACP000d9j4 - Sitting across from each other 05 seems similar in size.

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    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    As I said, I'd rather post this in the same thread as Dawna:

    I agree with @Snorticus. I see GSJuv05 almost as big as Gaia. When he arrives in ACP000d9s8 and Gaia is still standing we see that his legs are shorter. (Best seen in video) but sitting next to each other we see that their backs have the same length. So only his limbs are still a bit shorter.

    enter image description here

    This image might give another impression of his actual size ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

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    Looking at the comparison between Gaia and GSJuv09 there's proof that he is not as tall as she is but that his limbs are also shorter. Both have placed the knuckles of their right hand at the same height in the video (see red line and the plants underneath proof that it is the same height) Gaia's arm is still bent at the elbow while she turns toward the camera. GSJuv09's right arm might be bent as well or not but his shoulders do not have the same height as Gaia's and his head does not reach the same point almost at the top of the image as Gaia's head does. So his limbs must be shorter than Gaia's.

    enter image description here

    So I'm still convinced that GSJuv05 and GSJuv09 are the same chimp.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    great detective job ladies!

    I have to admit that I found difficulties in making up my mind about these juv. sizes.

    I thought that juv05 seemed younger (not only smaller), it means lighter, a "rounder". What is clear to me is that 09 has a nearly adult size (thanks Heidi for your beautiful comparison job). 05 was not so clear, but after your reasonings and pics comparing his size to Gaiaยดs I think you are right about it. What convinces me most is ACP000d9j4 , where he is sitting right in front of Gaia and he really seems to have an adult size.

    More thoughts would be most appreciated ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    ...and an adult belly as well ๐Ÿ˜„

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    yes ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all,

    it is just one video and I'm not familiar with these chimps, but to me GSJuv09 looks older than GSJuv05, darker face, more robust body...

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    ok, thanks Paula.

    As there is still some opposite opinions about the sizes of these juveniles, I will keep the two different IDs.

    Thank you everyone ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

    Posted