Chimp & See Talk

**Octavio: young male with straight brows

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    I think I found the guy (if match, it's a male adolescent) that follows Yoana in ACP000d988. He has a light face, straight and protruded brows, and big ears that slightly stick out. The same traits has the young male in ACP000d6bn. Size also fits, I think.

    ACP000d988

    enter image description here

    ACP000d6bn

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    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    One comment just for fun (or maybe we can prove it later). The young male follows Yoana and her jumpy kid in video ACP000d988 and the "other" young male in ACP000d6bp is followed by a jumpy kid in ACP000d6bp. Coincidence?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Coincidence or not but the young fellows look very much alike. I think also the muzzle is quite unique and looks almost beak-like.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thank you guys!!

    They look certainly alike, but I see them slightly different in size: to me the guy in ACP000d988 (GSJuv14) looks more like a late adolescent and the one in ACP000d6bn (GSJuv14b) a late juvenile. But it might be as well an effect of the different light and position, what do you think?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The size of the young male in ACP000d6bn is about the same size as this of GSFem09, maybe even a little taller. So I think he might be a late adolescent? First pic shows Fem09 second the young male.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I don't see any size differences in the adolescent male. He is not full size, but close, and testicles and also the not so thin legs from the guy in ACP000d6bn speak more for adolescent to me. In both cases. They look very similar, I think, and I support the match.

    Where I have a size problem is actually the one juvenile that was here suggested as Mona. I think this juvenile is smaller than Mona and does not belong to the same group. That's why I comment here and will post a link to this discussion in the other thread.

    Although, Mona is small too, she has a full swelling in ACP000d57l and is a late adolescent. In size comparison to GSMale25, she is smaller, but not that much. More 3/4 of body size than 2/3 for a late juvenile.

    enter image description here

    If you compare the juvenile to an adult female (not even a male), here Yoana, it looks considerably smaller.

    enter image description here

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    I think that we do see a juvenile here and would speculate that it is the juvenile male in ACP000d8su / ACP000d8sw (with the same male adolescent)

    Male adolescent with llight face and straight brows

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    Big juvenile (I cannot see anything female here, so would guess male)

    enter image description here

    A further support would be the unclassified ACP000d8sy which might show Yoana following.

    We might also see the juvenile in: ACP000d2mt (in back, more than seven months before the other video; we could discuss GSJuv09b, too, but I am not sure yet); in ACP000d98i fourth chimp entering. My argument would be size and no white anal tuft (excludes Yuri, Linden, the other light-face youngster - thread comes later ...)

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Actually I don't think that she is so much smaller than Yoana. She's slimmer for sure, but almost as tall as Yoana, at least 3/4 if not more. The head is almost at the same mark when you compare the V-shaped liana at the tree behind them.

    The last juvenile in the video above still has quite a bright face while the face of the assumed Mona has already darkend. I think she could as well be the young female we see in the same clip and the one before ACP000d8su and ACP000d8sw:

    Dark hair and big swelling like Mona's and the same composition as in the colored videos two hours earlier (Yoana, adolescent male, juvenile)

    enter image description here

    As for the groups: I'm still not sure if the two groups (apart from the Bohr/Petra group) are not one group only. Because just a minute before the video above with the juveniles and the young female there's a bunch of 5 males going in the same direction in ACP000d98b

    The one turning to the camera might be a well known guy 😃 (I'm thinking of GSMale10b/GSMale25 here...) We know from the Mona match that she is in the middle of male group. So this situation here is not different to the one of Mona in ACP000cxrg.

    enter image description here

    So I really think this is the male part of the Yoana/Hasina group. We have never seen these females together with males but here Yoana and the males are only one minute apart.

    Assumed Yoana following the group in unclassified clip.
    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    So I see there´s agreement on GSJuv14 = GSJuv14b

    @midnightsun , it´s your turn to name this guy 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I have given some new IDs:

    ACP000d989 = GSJuv15

    ACP000d8su / ACP000d8sw = GSJuv15b

    ACP000d98b : GSMale27

    That said, let me try and summarize your thoughts:

    • Anja, you argue that:

    GSJuv15 = GSJuv15b = GSJuv09b BUT NOT Mona

    This guy belongs to the Yoana´s group

    • Heidi, you think that

    The female walking before GSJuv15b = Mona

    GSMale27 = GSMale25

    And that they all belong to the same group: Mona, GSJuv15/b, Yoana, Hasina, and GSMale27

    Is this correct, or am I missing something?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Almost. 😉 My opinion is GSJuv15 = GSJuv15b = older juvenile in ACP000d2mt (farthest from the camera, would then be GSJuv15c?)
    and GSJuv09b (late male adolescent) might be GSMale14 = GSMale14b, is that clearer?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, thanks for clarifying 😃

    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    I propose Octavio for this young male with the straight brows.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    That's correct, Detective Nuria! Thanks! I just like to add that I also think that GSJuv15 is Mona. 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Very unique and nice name @midnightsun!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.

    I love Octavio!! I had a teacher in my elementary school called Octavio 😄

    Thanks @midnightsun !

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.

    Anja:

    • GSJuv15 = GSJuv15b = older juvenile in ACP000d2mt (farthest from the camera, would then be GSJuv15c?)
    • GSJuv09b = Octavio
    • This guys belongs to the Yoana´s group

    Heidi:

    • The female walking before GSJuv15b = GSJuv15 = Mona
    • GSMale27 = GSMale25
    • And that they all belong to the same group: Mona, GSJuv15/b, Yoana, Hasina, and GSMale27

    I think I got it 😄

    I will come back to this shortly...

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Hi @NuriaM, according to your list is GSJuv15b the young adolescent male in ACP000d8su. I did not talk about him for the juvenile match, but about the following smaller juvenile without a white tuft. The young male adolescent has been proposed by me as a possible match to Octavio.

    I am also pretty sure that @Boleyn does not suggest that this young male adolescent - named by you now GSJuv15b - is a match to Mona who is clearly a young female.

    There must have been some misunderstanding.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    oh, ok...let´s try again, one case at a time 😃

    Anja:

    • Match 1:

    GSJuv15 in ACP000d989 , GSJuv15c in ACP000d2mt and last juvenile in ACP000d8su :

    enter image description here

    correct?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    • Match 2:

    Octavio in ACP000d989, GSJuv09b in ACP000d2mt and GSJuv15b in ACP000d8su :

    enter image description here

    yes?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    I am also pretty sure that @Boleyn does not suggest that this young male adolescent - named by you now GSJuv15b - is a match to Mona who is clearly a young female.

    ...I didn´t mean Juv15b, but the female walking before him...

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    so Heidi:

    • Match 3:

    Mona in ACP000cxrg , first female walking in ACP000d8su :

    enter image description here

    right?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    • Match 4:

    GSMale25 in ACP000cxrg , GSMale27 in ACP000d98b :

    enter image description here

    ja?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Thank your for putting them together, Nuria!

    Looking at the composings it seems quite hard to determine whether they really are matches or not. :[

    As for the female I think I see the same body size and all black hair. But with only the back and b/w for comparison it's very hard to tell.

    AS for GSMale25/27 I think body built, round belly, bald spot and browline fit but I cannot say for sure. It was in both cases more like a hunch than real persuasion, or actually mostly context and composition of the group.

    Maybe there are some more opinions on those two proposals? Thanks!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP000d8sy is now in circulation and can be discussed.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thanks Anja. It might help make up our minds a bit. The d8su series, in order of appearance:

    ACP000d8su :

    Mona? + GSJuv15b=Octavio? + GSJuv15?

    ACP000d8sw :

    GSJuv15b-Octavio? + GSJuv15 + Yoana with her rodeo clown GSInf31?

    ACP000d8sy :

    GSJuv15 + Yoana with her rodeo clown GSInf31? + two more unidentifiable chimps in the background

    My thoughts are:

    Mona I´m not sure.

    Octavio, I agree

    GSJuv15, I agree

    Yoana, my proposal, so I agree 😉

    Posted