Match proposal to GSMale01b

• by Boleyn moderator

  Since some time I find myself coming back to this guy in ACP000cyh1 and ACP000cyh2 again and again. I'm sure he is GSMale01b (videos ACP000cuvy and ACP000cuw2) for the following reasons:

  Both are massively built with grey backs and legs. Both have a round head and round muzzle, a triangular balding, bushy sideburns and white beard, a fleshy nose with big nostrils, and a slightly swung browline pointing a little downwards in the middle. Although the quality od the clips could be better I think I see a damaged right ear in both chimps. It looks as if a part is missing. Finally one more body trait they have in common is that thick crease in the hair on their hips and even the butt looks the same with what looks like some white hair right in the middle.

  In the second video Anja commented on his right hand. I don't see it damaged. To me it looks more as if he's just scratching his nose when standing up.At the beginning of the first video the hand can be seen on the ground; nothing unusal there I think.

  Here's a comparison of the two with the most obvious traits pointed out.

  

  Looking forward to your comments. Thanks!

  Posted March 23, 2019 6:44 AM

• by vittoriaestienne scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

  I can't see any damage in the right arm and any obvious problem in walking in the videos ACP000cyh1 and ACP000cyh2.

  I agree on your match. In videos ACP000cuvy and ACP000cuw2 he seems to have a whitish beard around his mouth, not visible in ACP000cyh1 and ACP000cyh2 but it could be due just to the very different light in the two videos.

  Would you agree that the female with him in videos ACP000cuvy and ACP000cuw2 could be Akilah?

  Posted March 27, 2019 3:20 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I think Akilah is much older than this female (GSFem08) and has usually her kids around. It would also confuse our groups a bit as we've seen this male never with Akilah's group.

  I also miss the white beard and more robust body build of Akilah. Sorry, for me, they don't look similar.

  Posted March 27, 2019 3:25 PM

• by vittoriaestienne scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

  good! I don't know the chimps here so well, that was just a guess 😃

  Posted March 27, 2019 3:29 PM

• by Boleyn moderator in response to vittoriaestienne's comment.

  Yay! another almost match. Third vote for GSMale01b?

  Vittoria pls. see PM for group composition! Remember that little envelope on top right corner? 😉

  Posted March 27, 2019 5:58 PM

• by Boleyn moderator

  At some point I was thinking about GSMale29 and GSFem39 if they might be the same couple as GSMale01b and GSFem08. But they are not well seen so I dropped it. But if you'd like to try... 😉

  No time to add the videos anymore, sorry, need to hurry. You'll find them in the Known/Prospective list anyway.

  Posted March 27, 2019 6:09 PM

• by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

  I don't see any specific similar traits here. What you're basing your idea on? The female's facial complexion looks totally different to me and from the male we don't see much. Also consortship - that's what you're suggesting - should be limited to the fertile phase.

  Posted March 27, 2019 6:57 PM

• by Buzharevski scientist, moderator

  Great job you guys! I agree to GSMale01b in ACP000cyh1 and ACP000cyh2. Tagging and unstaring 😃

  Posted March 28, 2019 6:00 PM

• by Boleyn moderator

  Great, thanks Antonio. As this is another match, this male would also need a name. 😉

  Posted March 31, 2019 2:22 PM

• by MimiA scientist, moderator

  I was about to give this guy a name and I realized the discussion about him as a match to Yakini never went anywhere - could we discuss this again? anyone think Yakini and GSMale01b are a match?

  Posted April 12, 2019 12:26 PM

• by AnLand moderator

  I think, we are now pretty sure that he a) does not look like Yakini and b) belongs not to Yakini's group. I don't think that we still consider this match. But that's my understanding of the situation.

  Posted April 12, 2019 12:33 PM

• by MimiA scientist, moderator

  GSMale01b is found alone and with GSFem08 only and GSFem08 is never found with anyone else - why would we think either of them are not part of the "Yakini" group?

  Posted April 12, 2019 2:22 PM

• by Boleyn moderator in response to MimiA's comment.

  Thanks for bringing this up again, Mimi. It's true that we never really followed through that discussion.

  I remember proposing him as a possible match to Yakini in the very early days of Greensnowflake. In the meantime we learnt a lot about the chimps here and became very familiar, especially to group 1 and their composition. Neither of the two (GSMale01b and GSFem08) have been seen with any members of group 1 at any time while many of the group 1 members mixed up frequently. Of course this does not say that they don't belong to group 1 but I think we have never seen any member of group 1 at the places we found GSMale01b.

  Besides that, GSMale01b has different traits as Yakini has. His face is rounder and the brows are more prominent and especially the damaged right ear and that crease on his side is something that Yakini doesn't have.

  Posted April 13, 2019 4:42 PM

• by MimiA scientist, moderator

  I think knowing chimps (and especially this chimp population), its pretty dangerous to assume anything about group composition and associations and group membership. I would highly caution doing this in the future. We should be matching on traits only. These assumptions should also be omitted since it will bias our data anlayses on group composition and association, so lets stick to just traits in the future please 😃

  I am absolutely fine you saying the traits are different though, I'll get him a name ASAP 😃

  thanks!

  Posted April 15, 2019 11:42 AM

• by Boleyn moderator in response to MimiA's comment.

  Ok, no problem, thanks for pointing this out, Mimi. I just thought that group composition matters as we had this thread from Nuria here.

  Posted April 15, 2019 5:46 PM

• by MimiA scientist, moderator

  Thanks for pointing that out Boleyn, I think its cool to try to figure out if there are more than one group and what they might be. We just shouldnt be making matches based on those suspected groups 😃 thanks!

  Posted April 16, 2019 12:15 PM