Chimp & See Talk

#needCID new hashtag

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Hi everyone,

    First of all, since we can never say it enough, THANK YOU for all the amazing work you guys have been doing on Chimp&See! We are super excited to start using the data and getting the first analyses off the ground!

    As you all know, C&S is a work in progress and we are breaking new ground in the Zooniverse for how we are using the hashtags! It has been an incredible and unbelievable resource and your efforts have made the seemingly unfeasible possible.

    As we have started looking at using the data we have realized that we need a bit more information from the chimp video hashtags. We realize now that those chimps with no temporary IDs or names need a code too, so we want to make sure that we have all possible information coded even when it is not worthwhile (or possible) to give temporary IDs to certain unidentifiable chimps.

    It is important for the demographic analyses, because we want to know as much as we can for every single chimp we can see in the videos, and knowing a chimp is there but unidentifiable is still important information. Therefore, we are implementing the hashtag #needCID (need chimp ID) to the videos where the number of chimps present does not match the number of IDs given (that is, final names or temp. IDs). For example, in a case where we have the following tags: #4_chimp, #Christophe and #SNJuv01 we know we have 2 more chimps in the video but we have no idea if these are females, males, adults, infants, etc and often we can tell at least this much! For sure sometimes it will be unknown age and sex but this too is valuable info  . These new hashtags won’t get associated tag groups or be listed in the prospective chimp page since these tags will be for chimps that we think will be impossible to match in other videos. If however someone wants to try, we would never be opposed to that!

    The Science Team will focus on this for now, but we will think about opening it up once we have a good system worked out. In the meantime, you may see some new hashtags that are made up of a combination of letters and numbers (for example, #LSTUnkMal01). For the moment thereΒ΄s no need to worry about these new hashtags, but you will know what they are about when you see them.

    We will keep you updated 

    Pant hoots and Thank yous,

    The Science Team.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    If there are more than one video in a row with the same unidentified chimp(s) in it, do we tag all of the videos or do we just tag the first and merely refer to the others or how are we supposed to do this?

    Thanks for clarification!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi @Boleyn,

    I do not really know the plans here. But I think each of the four videos (from the one minute sequence) needs the tag and the new ID (that is not really a temporary ID, but another kind of identifier) will of course spread over the full minute - or longer - if the same chimp is seen. From current use, I do understand that the hashtag is not only for unidentifiable chimps, but for all the ones that never got an ID of any kind. Maybe that helps a little bit? @NuriaM is probably only back on Tuesday to answer the question fully. Cheers!

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    I think it's best if we let the Science Team take care of these new tags for now, as it's possible they are still thinking about how to address these types of issues. As @NuriaM mentions in the last paragraph, they will consider opening it up for all to use once they have a good system worked out.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    I actually do not understand it this way and also the message to the moderators said clearly that everybody is invited to contribute. The hashtag #needCID can be used by every volunteer in the framework presented here. If there are questions, we need to clarify.

    I think the science team will clarify soon. I can remind them after the holiday weekend, if necessary. The only issue that the science team had in the message to the moderators was that they would like to coordinate efforts in order to share the work as best as possible. So, maybe @Boleyn, you could send a message to @NuriaM if you want to take over a specific site. A wild guess would be ... Dawn Bird?! πŸ˜ƒ

    The unique identifiers on the other hand will be handled exclusively by the science team at the moment (and maybe opened later). I think it is not hard to understand that identifiers cannot be easily opened for everybody unless there is a very clear system (e.g. one that takes the video ID into account) to avoid using the same identifier twice - and create a mess with that.

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    Thanks everyone! @AnLand - your explanation is exactly what we had intended πŸ˜ƒ If there are more questions let me know πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Actually, I have two follow-up questions.

    First, there are sometimes chimps at closed sites that are probably identifiable, but never got a temp ID. Should those get posted to the forum for a temp ID to be assigned? Or would it make sense to have a separate tag for them? Or should they get treated the same as the unidentifiable chimps and just get the new tag?

    Second, do you want open sites handled differently from closed sites? That is, if a brand new video is found, should it get the new tag immediately? Or does it makes sense to try to ID the individuals first and come back and tag later if they can't be identified?

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Ahh, okay, I must have misinterpreted the guidance. Thanks for clarifying! πŸ˜ƒ

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you @AnLand for the clarification! LOL- I'm a bit embarrassed that my obession with dawnbird is so obvious πŸ˜‰ I'll drop a line to NuriaM thanks for the tip.

    I was also thinking about the open sites @jwidness but then I thought it doesn't make sense to add this tag when we are still in the process of identifying. So I dashed at DawnBird, because, I have to admit, Adged-Violet can't keep me longer than a half hour at one session ... πŸ˜•

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    Answers below πŸ˜ƒ

    First, there are sometimes chimps at closed sites that are probably identifiable, but never got a temp ID. Should those get posted to the forum for a temp ID to be assigned?

    **These should be marked with the #needCID tag please

    Or would it make sense to have a separate tag for them?

    **once they get the #needCID we can decide after if they need a "real tag"

    Or should they get treated the same as the unidentifiable chimps and just get the new tag?

    **yes, #needCID is the way to go for now since we just don't have enough science team time to go back and evaluate the sites and give proper temp IDs for now.

    Second, do you want open sites handled differently from closed sites?

    **** #needCID should primarily be for closed sites or for videos that you know are fully discussed and no longer pending any opinions or discussions. This latter category is of course tricky and requires a lot of review and cross checking. The science team will focus on closed sites for now for this reason. I can imagine that you will find cases for ongoing sites where #needCID is totally appropriate so feel free to send us a message if you aren't sure.**

    That is, if a brand new video is found, should it get the new tag immediately? Or does it makes sense to try to ID the individuals first and come back and tag later if they can't be identified?

    **For new/running sites the best thing will be to use #1_chimp #2_chimp tags for now I think.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Thanks for the clarifications : )

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi all,

    Here a brief update to this topic. We will now try out a workflow that applies the mentioned unique identifiers to #needCID videos at Cool Silence.

    To remind you, the science team need to know exactly who is in which video to tell something about party and community size, and other research questions, e.g., association patterns. This is easy with the matched and named individuals, and also kind of easy with individuals having a temp ID (CSJuv13 etc.) that aren’t matched, but we see enough to exclude matches to known or other prospective chimps. These identities will be kept – and for Cool Silence also discussed again in a few cases where we think, we can still find more matches.

    We will work now on videos without any realistic chance to identify the individuals in them, but that are often still clear enough to tell us something about age and sex of the chimps in them. These will get now unique identifiers that are a combination of letters and numbers. Despite being unique, they will repeat themselves as we are working on the event level (i.e., with longer sequences within a certain time frame).

    It may sound a bit rude, but we would like to ask you NOT to apply these tags at any site, as we need to record them in the background and still try out the workflow. At the moment, it is not planned to open this step to all volunteers soon, so please do not use these demographic tags. Thank you!

    Apart from this one request, if you have any questions about this, please ask at any time!

    Thank you!

    Posted