Chimp & See Talk

Anganeta, Amelia, Alia and Ada, Ilo, RWJuv04

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I am discussing with myself for quite some time now whether Anganeta is actually Ada, Amelia (who seems to be male) is Ilo and accordingly RWJuv04 would be Alia.

    I wanted to match this female in ACP0003dw6 to Ada, then to Anganeta and now I can't find a different between the families. Size of the offsprings and traits match and the traits of the female (hair color, brows, hawkish nose, small swelling, ears ...). I am not sure here, but wanted to discuss.

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    Alia and Amelia

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    Ilo and Ada

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    RWJuv04

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    Anganeta and Amelia

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    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    I'm not positive, but I think you might be right, @AnLand. The tricky part, and maybe most significant, is figuring out why Ada looks older and more gaunt than Anganeta in some sequences ( ACP00037nq ACP00037nr ACP00037ns ACP00037nt
    ACP00037o1 ACP00037o3 ACP00037o5 ).

    Ada

    Is it the light, age, or are they 2 different chimps? Also in those clips, Ilo seems stockier than Amelia, and size/age-wise, between Alia and Amelia. Between the 2 families, the clips seem to span a period of about 6 months. I suppose it's possible for him to grow that much during that time. Another tricky part would be pulling Juv04 in to make it a match between two 3-chimp families when most of the clips of Ada & Ilo don't have a 3rd chimp. It feels like a stretch.
    But based on individual appearances, I do think Ada and Anganeta are curiously similar, and I don't know of any solid proof that rules the match out.

    I wouldn't move to merge them yet, though, especially since there are still quite a few unknown families and juveniles, and some tags added where it's not immediately clear how it was decided. It's also possible that some sequences were mis-identified without them all being the same family. I know you're reviewing this site heavily at the moment, so maybe you know more than I do about all this. 😃

    As for ACP0003dw6 and ACP0003dw7, I think they are very likely Anganeta and family. Based on the time stamps, it looks like they spent the whole day in that area. Hope that helps.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think the major issue here is that we actually don't have a clear face view from Anganeta. She always looks down to the ground at this nutcracking location and the videos are from a rather short period of only two weeks in September 2013 from the same camera. At the only other sequence of her older offspring Alia (in November), she isn't actually seen.

    In these videos nothing speaks against them all being the same family.

    I am looking for differences, but they are really, really similar. Which still might be, but I would like to see some proof for uniqueness.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    For ACP0003dw6 and ACP0003dw7, I think it is safe to - for now - match the female and her infant to Anganeta and Amelia. They are very similar. But the juvenile is not Alia. It is way too small and the left ear definitely does not fit. It is deformed and Alia's is just perfect. The juvenile could be a match to RWJuv13.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    By the way, @ksigler: it is always fun to bring you back to Chimp&See for watching and discussing videos with a random posting for Cool Silence and Red Water. You really love these sites, don't you? 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    ACP0003eyx / ACP0003eyy / ACP0003eyz / ACP0003ez0 - This would be another interesting sequence. Compare the female juvenile's swelling to Alia's and the female's face view to Ada. Still not sure, though.

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    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks, @AnLand 😃 Cool Silence and especially Red Water were the sites that were open when I first came to C&S, back when I had hours every day to devote to them. Now that I have very little time to visit, I find it easier (and enjoyable) to contribute what little I can on the chimps that I've spent the most time studying in the past. Plus there are a few special unmatched chimps that haunt me from the older sites, so I really hope we can match them.

    I just re-read your original post about Juv13 here and I think you're probably right about these 2 juveniles. To my knowledge (based mostly on the prospective list), we don't have any other young juveniles with the notched left ear at this site. The facial features and skin coloration look similar, and both have just a tiny puff of white hair on the rump still. Now I wish we could figure out who its mother is.

    Posted