Adult female carrying small infant and camera reaction

by AnLand moderator

(found by @sabine-hh)

Only black-and-white videos (belong probably to scene with older juvenile: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00005c6). Female with narrow face, regular round ears, no baldness. Infant looks quite like the other small ones at MF7, but I think the mother has not been seen before. So, I think they are new.

enter image description here

ACP000484g, ACP000484h, ACP000484o, ACP000484s

Posted May 31, 2015 1:41 PM

by AnLand moderator

I try to vary the title of the postings a bit, but it is again an adult female carrying an infant.

(found by @Rubru)

ACP0004mbe, ACP0004mbf, ACP0004mbg

enter image description here

(Sorry, I have no time this morning to describe the scene and the chimp better.)

Posted June 3, 2015 6:08 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

#MF7Fem15/Inf11

Posted June 4, 2015 6:32 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

No problem!!! you´ve already done enough 😉

#MF7Fem17/Inf13

Posted June 4, 2015 7:20 AM

by AnLand moderator

A juvenile without visible traits is followed by a female adult carrying a small infant. Walking fast, but with a good face shot. Reminds me of MF7Fem17 and infant, brows seems to be quite straight. Regular round left ear (right not visible). Face form would fit. Age and appearance of infant too.

Female carries food in her mouth.

ACP0003v5r

enter image description here

Posted June 6, 2015 4:10 PM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

#MF7Fem19

Posted June 9, 2015 8:56 AM

by S-a-be

Possibly #MF7Fem17 #MF7Inf13 at nighttime

three videos: ACP0004mbi to ACP0004mbk. Chimps (the same?) can also be seen in videos ACP0004mbe to ACP0004mbg

from ACP0004mbi

Posted June 12, 2015 2:53 PM

by AnLand moderator in response to S-a-be's comment.

Yes, that's MF7Fem17 and her infant MF7Inf13.

The video time is 8:45 Uhr - so morning, but not night. You can see many videos from the morning and early evening in black-and-white. My guess is that there is still not enough light for the cameras to trigger the switch to the daylight colored mode. Real night videos are much darker.

Posted June 12, 2015 3:06 PM

by S-a-be

Ah, okay, this explains why some of the (what I thought was nighttime) videos are so incredible light...

Thanks

Posted June 12, 2015 3:11 PM

by AnLand moderator

Just for bookkeeping: ACP0004mbi, ACP0004mbj, ACP0004mbk

See the thread by @S-a-be : http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP00006k8

@NuriaM: I would suggest to merge both threads.

Posted June 14, 2015 7:33 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

hey @S-a-be, your thread is merged...

thanks!

Posted June 16, 2015 7:24 AM

by AnLand moderator

Hi @NuriaM - this discussion is locked: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP0000622

I wanted to add a possible match to MF7Fem17 and her infant MF7Inf13 (and another juvenile)

I just add the video IDs ACP0004830, ACP0004831, ACP0004832 (there are more videos, but I cannot go through the whole scene this morning. Just found it while annotating. Will do later.)

enter image description here

Posted June 18, 2015 7:39 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

Oh!! sorry...

unlocked and merged 😉

Posted June 18, 2015 8:13 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

Actually, that is the scene with MF7Fem15 and her adorable infant!!! I did not bring her together with MF7Fem17, but will look into that. The third picture of MF7Fem15 in the propective chimps list looks very much like MF7Fem17. So, I think, she is at least not really new.

We will see how the synchronized video IDs will assemble in the spreadsheet.

Sorry, missed that this morning!

Posted June 18, 2015 12:33 PM

by AnLand moderator

I added (in the spreadsheet) quite a lot of video IDs that - I believe - belong to that scene.

Best face shot of the juvenile:

enter image description here

ACP000482s (seems to be the start), ACP000482t, ACP000482u, ACP000482v, ACP000482w, ACP000482x, ACP000482y, ACP000482z, ACP0004830, ACP0004831, ACP0004832, ACP0004833 (in the last video with a female that might be MF7Fem15 with MF7Inf11)

We will see in the spreadsheet what the exact time frame and order is.

A possible match might be MF7Fem17 with MF7Inf13. See also this discussion: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP0000622

Posted June 18, 2015 6:47 PM

by AnLand moderator

Ok, we might have here two very similar situations - hopefully the spreadsheet can solve this.

@Snorticus found another start sequence (same place, also a juvenile that sits at this tree), but with a different date. Here: 2014-01-09 (the earlier collection above is 2014-01-20 - if they all belong in one continuous line. Start at ACP000482s )

ACP000486o ACP000486p ACP000486q ACP000486r

So, I am obviously wrong that it is all the same sequence.

Posted June 18, 2015 8:54 PM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

Good morning @AnLand,

yes, I was wondering too...Fem15 and Fem24 are very likely to be the same video sequence. I checked the Spreadsheet this morning but it has till not auto populated...

If they happen to be the same sequence (which I believe) I will undo MF7Fem24 and hashtag her as MF7Fem15.

Posted June 19, 2015 3:38 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

This is getting crazy...

sometimes different situations look very much the same one:

Large fruit trees tend to be hotspots for chimpanzee activity; here we have a nut cracking area, and there must be lots of nuts and fruits under that tree. It is very possible that many chimps stop there to crack some nuts, where they will surely find stone or wooden hammers and roots, rocks or the base of trunks used as anvils (it´s like sitting at the table 😉 ). So this situation should be quite common in this place. The fact that we always see a juvenile is confusing us, and makes us think that it´s always the same sequence with the same juvenile. And the repeating black and white videos make it even more difficult!

You are right, let´s wait for the spreadsheet to solve it for us!

Posted June 19, 2015 4:11 AM

by Quia moderator

Sorry for the delay! I was at a conference for the past few days, no time to update the spreadsheet. It looks like there is a very long sequence of this juv sitting cracking nuts, but there's a lot of comings and going at this site, too.

Posted June 19, 2015 7:41 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to Quia's comment.

Thanks @Quia! This helps a lot. So, the sequence found by @Snorticus is a separate one. The rest still holds together. Will look into the female and the possible match later.

Posted June 19, 2015 1:28 PM

by AnLand moderator

I looked again into the possible match and think, MF7Fem15 and MF7Fem17 are not a match. MF7Fem15 has not that balding, but two colored spots on her head. Also, her brows are much rounder. I still think that MF7Fem17 and MF7Fem19 are a good match.

Posted June 22, 2015 6:10 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

if I understand the spreadsheet correctly, MF7Fem15 and MF7Fem24 are the same video sequence...

Posted June 22, 2015 9:52 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

Yes, it is the same sequence and I think it is the same individual (with her infant). Admittedly, there is a lot coming and going, but I am pretty sure, she is the same the whole time: Mf7Fem15.

Posted June 22, 2015 4:28 PM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

ok, thanks!! I will undo 😉

Posted June 23, 2015 7:35 AM

by AnLand moderator

Found MF7Fem15 and her lovely infant again (and retract officially my matching with MF7Fem17): ACP0003mos

Round brows, no baldness, round bigger ears - and a super cute infant.

enter image description here

Posted June 30, 2015 7:40 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

great...so we have another match?
any more opinions? (I personally agree).

@AnLand, what makes you doubt about Fem17?

Posted June 30, 2015 8:05 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

The brows are straigther and she seems to be more bald. At the moment I see a match in MF7Fem17 and MF7Fem19. I will look in both matching proposals furthermore in the evening. Need to go now.

Posted June 30, 2015 8:09 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

no problem, for the moment she is given the MF7Fem29/Inf19 temporary ID.

Posted June 30, 2015 8:15 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

hey guys,

in our possible matches list we decided that MF7Fem17-MF7Fem19-MF7Fem15-MF7Fem29 are a possible match.
@AnLand sugests the following:

MF7Fem17 and MF7Fem19 could be a match

MF7Fem15 and MF7Fem29 could be a different match

so, we might have two different females+infants instead of one...

what do you think?

Posted June 30, 2015 8:41 AM

by Quia moderator

Sorry to be a debbie downer here, I'm hesitant about these matches.

Fem 17 and Fem 15, Fem 17 is very bald, Fem 15 is not, so I agree they are different.

Fem 15 and Fem 29, Fem 15 has a very uniform colour to the face, both eyemask and mouth are the same, where as Fem 29 has a much lighter mouth. I think they also have different balding patterns, 29 has a bit of a bald spot near the brow that 15 doesn't have.

Fem 15 and 19 I think could be a match, these two videos give the most similar angles to see them from. That said, the view of Fem19 is not the best, I can't confidently say they're the same. ACP0003v5r ACP0004mbf

Posted June 30, 2015 10:30 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

you are no debbie downer!

it´s good to be questioning matches, that´s the point!

anyway, if you think that Fem15 and Fem19 are a match, and you say that Fem15 and Fem29 are no match, it means then that Fem17 and Fem19 are no match, right?...if I understand right, you disagree with @AnLand ´s assumptions, and propose this:

Fem15=Fem19

Fem17

Fem29

three females, right?

Posted June 30, 2015 11:09 AM

by MimiA scientist, moderator

This is exactly how it should be going - great work guys! Keep at it with figuring out those chimps!

Posted June 30, 2015 11:36 AM

by AnLand moderator

I agree that the mouth area appears here much lighter. But the light is different and the basic difference between the darker eye and lighter mouth area is seen in MF7Fem15 too. Well seen here: ACP0004830 and here: ACP0004831. I see the same gray legs and gray lower back as well a gray breast area.

enter image description here

The bald spot is from a totally different perspective well visible going from the inner right brow left to the forehead:

enter image description here

I think, we have to take into account here that we - unfortunately - do not know anything about light, reflexion and other parameters that influence especially the black-and-white footage.

Also, both of the others, MF7Fem17 and MF7Fem19 are seen with another young juvenile that might be hers/theirs. With MF7Fem17 is still another chimp, but too much in a distance to even say whether adult or juvenile. MF7Fem15 is seen with her infant and a quite old juvenile that must not be around all the time. At least for me, also the behavior of the infant counts. None of the other small babies I have seen is that mobile and interested in everything.

Posted June 30, 2015 4:58 PM

by AnLand moderator

(Also: that should not be a start sequence. Maybe we see later who MF7Fem29 is with.)

Posted June 30, 2015 5:11 PM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

ok guys...after a long brain storm, here is my proposal:

I agree with you that Fem15 and Fem17 are two different females (no match).

now, Fem17 has tree possibilities:

Fem17 has NO MATCH
Fem17 + Fem19
Fem17 + Fem29

My assumption is that Fem17 and Fem19 are different: 19 has more bald patches all over her body, and 17 has more homogeneous fur.
Fem17 and Fem29 look slightly different to me too: Fem17 has longer face and Fem29 face is more white spoted (maybe the light?).

So I go for Fem17 has no match 😕

Fem15:

Fem15 has NO MATCH
Fem15 + Fem19
Fem15 + Fem29

Here I go for Fem15=Fem29. In my opinion Fem19´s face is more triangular than Fem15´s.

which means that Fem19 has NO MATCH :::

Fem17

Fem19

Fem15=Fem29

is my guess...sorry if I am being even more confusing??? 😦

Posted July 1, 2015 10:20 AM

by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

I agree, Fem15=Fem29. The infants, as well.

Posted July 1, 2015 10:50 AM

by Quia moderator

I can agree with that. The thing that was really throwing me off the match is the light mouth, everything else about them is similar. The light is just doing very strange things with the infrared cameras I suppose. Definitely something to keep in mind!

Posted July 1, 2015 12:33 PM

by AnLand moderator

Maybe @Boleyn wants to propose two names: MF7Fem15 and her cute infant ... (sorry, if I am going too fast, but I think, we agree here).

Posted July 1, 2015 6:33 PM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Quia's comment.

hey @Quia , I totally agree with you, this light issue MUST be taken into account (and drives us crazy!!!) .

Posted July 2, 2015 8:05 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

about naming...

@AnLand, you are right about proposing @Boleyn as s/he has been involved in the other part of that scene (MF7 Juvenile female: distant sequence), but although @Boleyn is a very active and helpful user , actually did not participate in this discussion in particular, but @S-a-be did.

I suggest: let´s give @S-a-be the chance to name Fem15 + and @Boleyn Inf11 ...agree?

Posted July 2, 2015 8:20 AM

by Boleyn moderator

so nice, thanks. I agree that @S-a-be was much more involved. The little cutie shall be named "Noble". I hope her (or his) mother is ok with this name 😃

Posted July 2, 2015 9:21 PM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

hey @Boleyn, Noble is a lovely name...I´m sure mom would totally agree 😉

let´s wait for @S-a-be ´s proposal...I would suggest, let´s see if s/he replies today, and if we get no answer, would you like to name mom too?

Posted July 3, 2015 7:23 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

...so, I think it´s @Boleyn´s turn to name Fem15+Fem29 😃

Posted July 6, 2015 10:16 AM

by Boleyn moderator

Thanks Ladies, you're too generous. YOU did all the hard work. I'm alreday confused just reading all the possible matches. BUT...since s_a_be is obviously not around ... I'd like to call Fem15+Fem29 and Noble's mother "Nayla". This name has some very nice meanings in different languages like the Successful, or Girl from Paradise 😃 ok with you?

Posted July 6, 2015 4:45 PM

by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

Thank you! What a beautiful name!

Posted July 6, 2015 4:55 PM

by jwidness moderator

I'm looking at a couple videos (found by sabine-hh) that come right after the scene with Nayla and Noble:

ACP000484o

ACP000484p

I strongly suspect the female and her small infant are Nayla and Noble due to the very close timing, but I'm having a hard time finding the physical proof. Can anyone else ID them, or is it too unclear?

Posted July 7, 2015 3:21 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

Hi @jwidness

It is not easy to really see special traits like the female's face, but I always took them as Nayla and Noble for three reasons:

It is the same scene. The female was just picking up some nuts (or rocks) to continue her activities. She carries them in both hands and you hear the hammering later. Until now, we do not have any intention that other individuals are around.
The infant again grabbed something on its way and carries it with her. We did not see this often and Noble would totally do that.
The juvenile pays attention. I said before that I think they belong together and she(*) continuously pays attention to what her mother is doing, which would - in my opinion - not be the case if they were unrelated (especially during feeding). And I don't assume that the juvenile is looking over just because she finds the infant cute.
I am still missing the start of the other Nayla scene and hope the juvenile will appear there, too. We will see.

(*) I think @sabine-hh suggested at one point that the juvenile is female and I am going with it.

I think that @NuriaM might agree because of this posting: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000j/discussions/DCP000076z

Posted July 7, 2015 5:54 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

Nayla is a gorgeous name, thank you @Boleyn !

Posted July 7, 2015 8:17 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

I agree with you that they are Nayla and Noble...tagged 😃

Posted July 7, 2015 10:28 AM

by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

@NuriaM: at the known chimps list is a typo in Nayla's post. Noble with two b. Only you can change it, I think.

Posted July 7, 2015 10:33 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator

found and changed...

thanks @AnLand 😃

Posted July 7, 2015 11:22 AM

by jwidness moderator

Oops, there was one more that I suspect is still Nayla and Noble -- just ~4 minutes after the last clips: ACP000484s (found by sabine-hh)

Posted July 7, 2015 4:15 PM

by Boleyn moderator

thank you @AnLand and @NuriaM that's the least I can do to dig for some nice names. 😃 btw I also noted somewhere that I think Noble is female. So this makes already two of us! and to be honest: this MUST be a girl so cute and so curious LOL

Posted July 7, 2015 4:23 PM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

hey @jwidness, I tagged them already...but although they are VERY likely to be Nayla and Noble as they really look like them, I must admit that in 4 minutes many things can happen. She (Nayla?) seems to be looking for her Juv27?

thanks!

Posted July 8, 2015 8:47 AM

by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

😃

Posted July 8, 2015 8:48 AM