Chimp & See Talk

"Young single" females (or so, we think)

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi all,

    I start this new thread as an attempt to get an overview and sort female chimps that appear to be younger and nulliparous (i.e. they do not have given birth to an infant yet and are not visibly pregnant).

    As Roux is easily recognizable and unique, she is not part of this overview.

    I include all videos of young females already discussed in other posts (and by others) and add some new. I will update the posting if new footage appear. Please alert me, if new videos are found or I missed something.

    We have quite some sightings of these females (or just one female?), so permanent traits might be visible and changing ones (like the sexual swelling) should be in agreement with each other. No sightings overlap until now.

    In chronological order:

    September 5, 2012, 15:03 ACP0006bzg (DL11Female35)

    November 22, 2012 ACP0006cc3 / ACP0006cc4 (DL11Female34)

    December 24, 2012, 14:46 ACP0006lxs / ACP0006lxt / ACP0006lxu

    February 28, 2013, 09:30 ACP00072l1 / ACP00072l2

    March 14, 2013, 09:15 ACP00072hu / ACP00072hv / ACP00072hw (the latter with time stamp: 09:16 same day)

    March 18, 2013, 20:17 ACP0007e21 / ACP0007e22 (DL11Female38)

    March 24, 2013, 10:44 ACP00072j8

    April 3, 2013, 08:29 ACP00072rx

    April 10, 2013, 13:47 ACP00073jm / ACP00073jn – the female is following Roux, a normal swelling is visible, the left ear might be bent (NEW)

    April 25, 2013, 12:06 ACP00072wj / ACP00072wk

    May 6, 2013, 07:08 ACP00077qk

    May 21, 2013, 10:32 ACP0006lee – a slimmer female using her right foot only carefully, tagged with injury (NEW)

    June 17, 2013, 08:16 ACP00070d4 / ACP00070d5

    The next step would be to add descriptions and pictures (new or from the older posting) wherever possible. Myself, I do not have an opinion right now, this is just an overview.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Well I reread a bunch of articles about female cycles, and particularly about cycles in nulliparous females. I think the short version is there are no videos in the list above that outright contradict the hypothesis that there is just one female shown in all of them.

    Cycles in young females can be both extremely variable and quite long (one study gave a range of 18 to 64 days in length). Swellings can last for weeks, and there may be as few as ~5 days with no swelling at all before the next cycle. It also wouldn't surprise me to see that most of the videos show her swollen, since females are more likely to be seen around other chimps when swollen (and I think that we're more likely to catch a chimp in a group on camera because there are multiple individuals to trigger the video, whereas solo chimps may leave behind blank videos). Given the fairly unique shape to her swelling -- more ventrally oriented than any female I have yet seen -- I'm leaning toward the (potentially unprovable) idea that these are all the same female.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Okay, so the swelling - however long the cycles in this female might be - does not contradict. That makes sense as she might be an immigrant into the community and maybe needs the support of the males. A big and long swelling surely helps (un-scientific, but probably true on that level).

    But that essentially means that this trait does not play a role in our discussion. We need to find another trait for matching. We have only one face view and the discussion about a bent left ear.

    enter image description here

    The triangular, lighter face is at maximum seen here: ACP00070d4 (and quality and distance don't allow matching).

    And by the way, I cannot see anything special in her swelling. In some videos it might be more downward oriented, but to be the recognizable trait, we need to see it in all. I don't. So, that still means, it could be more than one females.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    So, I guess we got super lucky. @dpellerin found this new video of a young female with both - a face view and a good look at the ear and swelling ACP0006sot and ACP0006sou (December 26, 2012, 07:34)

    What I definitely see is the same face form and especially the nostrils of DL11Female38.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thanks guys for this 😃

    @jwidness, thanks for your explanation on the swellings. I agree with @AnLand that we need to find another trait to claim a match 😦.

    As for ACP0006sot (DL11Female39), I see similarities with Female38´s face shape too...

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I just would like to add that I definitely also see DL11Female34 in her. The swelling and general body build fits, the left ear is bent and the legs sparsely furred. The small white spot on her left site seems to be there in both videos. Until now, I thought that this was not something real, but it is apparantly.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP0007e22 and ACP0006cc3 and ACP0006sot ACP0006sou
    ****DL11Female38 + DL11Female34 + DL11Female39

    Not very scientific of me, but I will eat my hat if these three are not all the same female 😃

    That swelling is incredibly distinctive to me with the gray pattern of pigmentation on the top and the horizontal gray shape on the left side, halfway down. Also that shape is unusual with the bottom part that hangs so low with that very long vertical shaped indentation. As she exits in ACP0007e22 I can see a dark vertical line low on her swelling (which is not as large there as in the other clips) when I stop-motion watch it.

    There is definitely a small white spot on the left side of the back that moves when she does.

    The faces are long, upper lip is long, and they have dark cheek patches that curve in toward the nose, giving the face a sort of "figure 8" shape.

    The left ear has a dent or bend at the top inside corner.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Good point about the white spot on her (their?) left side...I didn´t see it before. I can even see it in Female38 (sec.5 of ACP0007e22) 😃

    I absolutely agree that these three ladies are VERY likely to be the same one.

    You guys give solid arguments that support the match, thanks!!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    What about Female35? I thought we had already agreed she's part of it too? As Snorticus said, I'd eat my hat if she doesn't match 😛

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    😄 !!

    I am not so sure about Female35, I can´t see her white spot on her left side, but I think her left ear would fit though 😕.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to jwidness's comment.

    if we all agree about Female34 + Female38 + Female39, we can give her a name, and then discuss about Female35 :}

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    If no one else has a name to propose, I like "Mary" for this single female.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Excellent choice : )

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    thanks @ksigler!

    I was wondering, didn´t we have any Mary yet??? we needed one 😃

    Posted