Chimp & See Talk

DL11Fem23 and 12 and kids

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Something here does not make sense, but I will post it anyway. I've seen for a long time similarities between Fem12 and 23 and excluded this match because of the weird time line as her ventral infant was already quite big in October 2012. But now we discuss the "unnormal" large infant with Fem23 extensively and I realized the Juv08 and Juv18 both have the white spot on their right wrist (@NuriaM: it's actually the right one!). I do not have any problem (besides the infant question) to see similarities in the females. For the juveniles: first, Fem12 is seen with three kids. If Piki is a match to Juv08, maybe twice (but it's not clear in this sequence). Second, if only Juv08 belongs to her: s/he looks bigger or at least well-fed. Juv18 is very thin (but it's the end of the dry season. Is it possible that the kid is in such a bad shape? The juv is even stumbling in ACP00073yd.)

    Piki (I am not sure what match is here accepted / confirmed) has a little bump under his/her left eye. I think, I see that in Juv18, but I am not sure.

    Camera position is in principle comparable (both from a higher angle). Nevertheless, Juv18 looks smaller and thinner.

    I don't know what I am suggesting here. The white spot on the wrist is there, definitely. And the females have similarities. But all in all, it does not fit.

    Fem12:

    enter image description here

    Fem23:

    enter image description here

    Juv18:

    enter image description here

    Juv08:

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    hmm...I see that white spot too (can you please tell me where I wrote left wrist instead right wrist, so that I can edit it?), and the females look similar to me, but only similar. I have the feeling that Fem23´s face is a bit rounder and her brows are straighter than Fem12 :S

    as for Piki´s white bump, I can´t see it in Juv18 😦

    and about the juveniles size, I don´t think juv18 is in such a bad physical condition; he looks certainly thinner to me...do you think the s/he stumbles because of bad physical conditions or because s/he bumps into something on the ground?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Wrong wrist description in the prospective list for Juv18: http://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000o/discussions/DCP0000fzq

    For Piki: I looked into Piki, but cannot see the white spot and as Juv8 is still (also) separately in the prospective list, I was not sure what the matching status here is. The wrist is seen in Juv8 - that was my main point.

    But - and this is more a question: ACP0006vb9 (Juv12), there seems to be a whitish shine on the right wrist too. One can never see it right. Face form and light face don't disagree. Fem18 (when arriving in ACP0006vao) does not look unfamiliar.

    About the bad shape: yes, for me Juv18 looks not only thin, but moves also strangely (as in weak). I do not have any experience here and it's maybe only imagination, but the movement looks slow, unsteady, and stumbling. But, maybe it's just tiredness.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    description edited...thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi @NuriaM,

    could you - just to keep my interest satisfied - look whether you see a white spot on Juv12 too and maybe some similarities between this juvenile and Juv18 as well as mom and the infant. I see (in the female - DL11Female18): baldness, long left nipple, big ventral infant with dark eye mask, slightly wider face, bald spots on the back. And a juvenile present tat might be her's and has a white spot on the wrist.

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    let´s see:

    1. the juveniles: I see a white spot on Juv12`s wrist too (behind the branches...not so clear, but again the light might play a role here):

      [![one](https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5538048769736d628800b323/previews/5538048769736d628800b323_1.jpg =500x)](https://static.zooniverse.org/www.chimpandsee.org/subjects/5538048769736d628800b323/previews/5538048769736d628800b323_1.jpg) 

**Juv12** and **Juv18**. I have been trying to find identifiable traits (apart from the white spot) but I couldn´t find anything...my only argument is that they do really look very alike -pinkish face, round ears, slightly straight brows. Juv12 video is one month before Juv18`s, however 12 looks a bit bigger than 18, but here I must take your suggestion into account and admit that juv18 might be in bad physical conditions.

    2. the females: Baldness: agreed, long (left?) nipple: agreed, infant: agreed...and I would add that their ears look a bit prominent both in female18 and female23...

    sorry that I can´t be more explicit, but I would say that they have big chances to be a match 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    wow nice, NuriaM!...so you are coming back to this promise about females18 and 23 (see last post in this thread) 2 bald mothers with back scars? also discussed here: Bald female with large white spots on her back and a ventral infant

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Sometimes it helps to change the perspective (and find some more arguments). I did not really believe in the earlier suggestions as I could not see anything distinctive. Now, the picture gets somehow clearer. I am not convinced myself yet, but it's possible.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    sorry if I sometimes leave open discussions...but as @AnLand says, with no strong arguments we could just run in circle 😃 .

    Please, please remind me to go back to any thread anytime you need to!!!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hey guys, I don´t want to leave this case open for discussion again 😛, If no one disagrees, I will assume a match here by next week, what do you think?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Thanks for the possibility and no harm done @NuriaM, with so many threads and discussions I can imagine it's not easy to keep track of any open item. I would certainly not succeed if I were in your shoes!

    And to your last post: who I am to contradict you if you agree on a match 😉.... yipeeeehhhh! 😄

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    Not sure how much help this is, but I agree that Fem18 & Fem23 are possibly a match, but not Fem12 as her ears are more regular while the others' bend outward at the top.

    Not sure about Juv08, but I don't think the context is there to support the match if Fem12 is out. Leaving Juv12 and Juv18, which I don't think are the same. There is a big size difference, and the head and brow of Juv12 seem more square/flat. I could be wrong about it, though.

    Juv18's head looks round and smooth, with a sharp dip between rounded brows

    Juv18

    Juv12's head looks more square, with a break between flatter brows

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I cannot see the subtle differences @ksigler describes, sorry. For the size differences (and apart from my thinking about the health status of Juv18) one must take into account that here the camera perspective is not the same. And if you just compare arm and leg length, I do not see much difference. Juv12's body is in general more erect. I see the same dip in brows, ears, nostrils ...

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I still support this match; about the juveniles dip, I think I know what you mean @ksigler, but I have the feeling that it is just an annoying pixel, as it changes as the juv18 approaches the camera.

    as for the female´s ears, I think you might be right. Female12´s ears look more regular, but the image quality is much better than the others...I don´t know, Female18 is mostly looking downwards, and that can give you the impression that her ears look more prominent... 😕

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator

    Okay, no problem, I didn't feel 100% about what I was seeing on the Juvs.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hi all!

    for a good beginning of the week, we can start by naming these ladies, infants and juveniles.

    I guess @Boleyn could help with that (at least with naming one of them) 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Thank you very much #NuriaM! I'm so glad I get this opportunity because this female and her family really got me going for a long time!

    I like to propose
    Aisha for the female (which means "alive" or "she who lives" in Swahili) and
    Ajali for the infant ("chance" in Swahili)

    if this is ok for all of you. And since it was @AnLand starting the discussion about this family again, I think it's her turn to name the juvenile!

    ❤ Thanks again!! ❤

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Wonderful names! Love them.

    I do not have any stake here (waiting for another confirmation ...). Whoever wants to propose a name for the older juvenile is welcome. I would love to see a suggestion from someone without a chimp of him- or herself. 😉

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    thanks @Boleyn, lovely names!!

    you have been working hard on this case, do you want to name the juvenile as well? or do you want to propose someone?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    Now I am a bit confused. I thought, you do not agree to ACP00064om be part of the match as she might have three kids and looks different (not so round face and less straighter brows). Did you change your mind and if yes, why? (Just curious.)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, it was just a feeling...but said that I accepted the match at the end 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    @NuriaM I like the proposal of @AnLand that somebody should name the juvenile which hasen't named a chimp by now. But I'm not sure who this could be?

    @Corcaroli and @tweger both do a lot of classification. Have they named a chimp yet? If not one of them, I think it should be @Snorticus because she added a lot to the threads about Aisha and her family in

    2 bald mothers with back scars? and

    Bald female with large white spots on her back and a ventral infant

    Take your pick 😄

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Hi guys, thank you for the inclusion @Boleyn these chimps were hard to sort out! @Cocaroli has done a lot of classifying for many months. I vote to see if s/he wants to do the naming.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Hi @Boleyn and @Snorticus, I definitely support your suggestion to ask @Corcaroli! I think, somebody needs to write him. He might not see this discussion here. (Of course, I can do this, but this was your suggestion.)

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to AnLand's comment.

    Okay, I just messaged @Corcaroli and asked if s/he would be interested in naming and I linked this discussion and the clips showing the juvenile. It would be nice to spread the fun :-)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I think @Corcaroli is a good decision...please @Snorticus, let me just arrange it myself the next time 😃

    Thanks!!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to NuriaM's comment.

    @NuriaM - of course this should be your responsibility to coordinate as our scientist for Dry Lake -
    I'm sorry for not thinking of the chain of command and 'over-helping' 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    😃

    you make such a great team! Thanks for helping so much!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    hey guys, I have known that @Corcaroli already named a chimp in Lingering Shape (Bruno). I know that not having named a chimp yet was your arguments to choose the one doing it now, but I still support him naming our Juvenile anyway, it´s more than fair!!!

    thoughts?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I knew that too (as I asked him then), but I still think, we should ask him. And I think, we now already did and cannot take this away. And I would not want. He proved very skilled in choosing a great name. 😛

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    I support @Corcaroli naming the juvenile, and Bruno was such a suitable name for that male chimp I remember thinking at the time. I think he deserves a crack at naming another chimp 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    EXCELLENT!!!!

    @Corcaroli, it´s all yours...😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    go for it, @Corcaroli!! 😄

    Posted

  • Corcaroli by Corcaroli

    I have had the pleasure of being asked to name Juv 12. The name I have chosen is Shadow. I hope this is where I am supposed to put this. Thank you very much for choosing me to name the chimp.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to Corcaroli's comment.

    This is the right place, Dick/Corcaroli and I like the name Shadow for this juvenile, good job!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Corcaroli's comment.

    Great!!!

    I love SHADOW, thanks @Corcaroli!!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Corcaroli's comment.

    Great choice, I love it very, very much.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I have not the shadow of a doubt that this juvenile would consider his/her name

    very cool

    thanks @Corcaroli 😄

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    😛

    Posted