Chimp & See Talk

Ivy & Imani/RSJuv07--Do we know this female + offspring?

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    I don't think I recognize this female and her rather large kid riding dorsally:

    ACP000bsz0 (also briefly visible in prior video, ACP000bsyz)

    one

    one

    Does anyone else recognize them? If not, I will give them temporary IDs.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Some days ago I was looking for known chimps to compare this couple but couldn't find them either. Good to know they have a temp ID now 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I think this might be her in ACP000ch19 tagged by @amgaynor

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000cgmw and ACP000cgmyI think this is them again in this long line found by Dana23 and AnLand and me, traveling in front of Waldemar.

    ACP000cgmw Female with long upper lip and protruding muzzle, very shiny bald spot above the mid brow, and quite large infant with big pink ears.

    enter image description here

    ACP000cgmy Closer look at the juvenile's face with a broad nose, dark eye mask, and the big pink ears that stick out.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    Mhm, Im quite unsure, but is it possible, that this is Hafidha and RSJuv05?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    @luca-chimp I was also thinking about Hafidha but ruled it out because RSJuv05 has a darker face than the juvenile in video ACP000bsz0 but obviously it was just the very different light that tricked me once again. Now with the new videos I can see his face is actually as dark as the one of RSJuv05 therefore I think you might be right. Let's hear what Maureen and the others thinks about it 😃

    RSJuv05, dark mask, round brows, wide nose all similar
    enter image description here

    our juvenile above:

    enter image description here

    and Hafidha

    enter image description here

    and the female above:

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    She's in ACP000cf3c, tagged by @Snorticus

    enter image description here

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    Also ACP000bihz and ACP000bii0, tagged by @Dana23 @awallen @Snorticus

    She sure reminds me of Jaman with that long upper lip and round mouth!

    enter image description here

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    She's the second adult in ACP000ceu2, tagged by @luca-chimp

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    ACP000cbc3 tagged by @Dana23 @zoogirl1 @Snorticus

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    ACP000cexk tagged by @Dana23

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    I think it's her in ACP000cf37, tagged by @Henrik87 @Snorticus @zoogirl1

    enter image description here

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    And if it's her in ACP000cf37, then I'm pretty sure she's in ACP000cez0 as well, tagged by @lauraklynn @Dana23 @Snorticus

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Nice collection @jwidness. In most of the screenshots you posted she looks different from Hafida due to the long muzzle that reminds me too of Jaman. I tried to compare her further to Hafida and I think I found more traits that differentiate those two. Our female here seems to have a special shaped left ear maybe also the right one, can't see it clearly while Hafida's ears are described as "undamaged". Also her brows seem to be more rounded and less protruding than Hafidas. Can we rule this match out or what do you think?

    Hafida

    enter image description here

    new female:

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    I agree that she is a new female and not Hafidha. So this lady needs a name! @jwidness found the first matching videos but will decline the name. Next @Snorticus posted match videos... therefore would you like to name her, @Snorticus?

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Thanks for all those pics of her, @jwidness. Maureen - I think I would like to name her Ivy because her offspring is so often clinging to her. She does have a long lip that reminds me of Jaman. Maybe they're siblings?

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Excellent choice : )

    I was wondering if she might be Jaman's mom, and wishing all those poop samples could tell us ; )

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Lovely name, I like it! I'm still wondering why a juvenile of this size is still riding so often on moms back.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    That same thought occurred to me, jwidness. How is the poo-processing going MimiA? I was puzzled by the riding behaviour too, Boleyn - glad to see the kid walking in some of the other clips jwidness posted. Poor Ivy's back 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    yep, poor Ivy! I think the juvenile should be called "Poison" 😛 😄

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    Or Limpet 😄

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Ivy is a great name, @Snorticus ! Thank you!

    It would be great if the genetic data could help us to directly figure out the parent-offspring kinship of the individuals we have come to know in the videos. Unfortunately, the only way this can work is if we know who the poo is collected from when it is found in the field. Because these chimpanzees are unhabituated, though, the field researchers typically find the poo under a nest or along a trail and do not have the benefit of knowing who produced the poo they collect. That makes it tough to directly link the genetic data with the camera trap videos to look at questions of paternity, etc.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    Lol, @Boleyn "Poison" seems a tiny bit harsh for the poor insecure juvenile 😉 Lol, @luca-chimp I had to google "Limpet"

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    No need to say "silly me". I am certain that many of the citizen scientists are quite interested in how the whole process works, and such comments are therefore intended for the benefit of all.

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    @Snorticus - we're working on getting those poops genotyped but it takes some time with so many! and our amazing grad student @Lesterj1972 is working on some new methods to really be able to get through things efficiently 😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to maureenmccarthy's comment.

    @maureemmccarthy I did not mean to disparage that inquiry at all, just myself. I have edited that thoughtless "silly remark".

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    No worries! And for the record, I think it's a great question! 😃

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    It was definitely great to hear an update on the poo processing 😃

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.

    😄 😄 😄

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Since Ivy's offspring is a young juvenile, we can better describe her traits and give her a name too while we're at it. For starters, we can see that she's a female in ACP000cf37. No good previews but the video shows it well.

    I've given her the temporary ID RSJuv07 for now but @Boleyn , would you like to name her? You have been involved a lot in the match thread. 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Maureen pointed out Ivy in ACP000cc09, and now I think it's also her in ACP000cciv (the closer chimp).

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to maureenmccarthy's comment.

    Thank you very much Maureen, I'd love to name our little shy and anxious girl. Let me find a nice name for her.

    @jwidness do you then think that the juvenile right at the beginning or better seen here ACP000cciu is Ivy's daugther?

    And: are juveniles also showing piloerect fur or is this just a very fluffy little one?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Thanks!

    Also, regarding the genetics/videos, there was a great discussion about that and other things here in case you missed it 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    yep, I missed that. Thanks for the link Maureen.

    In the meantime I have found a short article about piloerection in chimpanzees

    Reading this and supposing that our little girl here is a bit on the anxious side I can very well imagine that she is pilo erect in this video above. (in case this really is Ivy's daugther of course)

    Because RSJuv07 is so "faithful" to her mother Ivy ( 😃 ) I'd like to call her Imani which means faithful in Swahili.

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Lovely name, @Boleyn ! Thank you!

    And thanks for the article about piloerection. I am not so sure in the video above...she could be but it's a bit difficult to tell. (I always think their hair looks weird in the black and white videos!) In general it is associated with display behavior (particularly in adult males) and less so with momentary anxiousness, but this is a generalization to be sure.

    And just as a reminder to anyone who doesn't know or may have forgotten, we have the handy hashtag #piloerect which can be used when you see a "fluffy" chimpanzee in piloerect mode. Thanks!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    In ACP000bwd4, the female who starts the video at the bottom of the hill looks like Ivy to me. And Imani must be one of the juveniles, but I honestly haven't really looked at her features enough to even guess at which (so to answer @Boleyn -- I'm not sure about the juvenile in ACP000cciu, but seems reasonable).

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    She does look like Ivy to me too. For Imani I would say she must be the one in front of her in the first seconds and behind Ivy and reaching out to her right at the end of the video. But that's nothing but a guess 😃

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    I have tagged them, thanks!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Looks like Ivy/Imani again here: ACP000bqgp

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Tagged, thanks!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I ran into ACP000bv98 in classification -- part of ACP000bv95 ACP000bv96 ACP000bv97 ACP000bv98 and thought it looked like Ivy and Imani.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    ACP000bqgp is already tagged, but it looks they're actually on two triggers of the camera. At 14:08, there is ACP000bqgc ACP000bqgg ACP000bqgj, then ACP000bqgp at 14:09.

    ACP000bqgj

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    I tagged them in these videos too, thanks!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    I think I spotted Ivy and Imani in this black and white set: ACP000cawn ACP000cawp ACP000cawq ACP000cawr

    In the first clip, Ivy is the one climbing down in the background

    enter image description here

    Imani is the juvenile climbing down in the beginning of the second clip

    enter image description here

    At the end of the second clip, Ivy comes walking into view

    enter image description here

    She then climbs up the tree in the third clip

    enter image description here

    And Imani follows her up in the last clip

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Great, I tagged them. Thanks!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Having looked at Imani's face a little more, I think @Boleyn is correct that she's the juvenile in front of Ivy in ACP000cciu and ACP000cciv

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • puddock by puddock

    I think these same four are in video ACP000cc4f - sorry - haven't figured out how to link to it yet...I've posted a comment on the video on the main page...looks like a nice close group 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Just typing the number of the video links it automatically : )

    If you look at the comments already on a video, you may find that the chimps in it are already identified. For ACP000cc4f, we've identified Swing (leaving at the beginning), Ivy (the mom), Imani (the juvenile), and La Presidente (the last one).

    If you need any help with the interface, feel free to ask!

    Posted

  • puddock by puddock

    Thanks so much - I'm beginning to get the hang of it... 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    ACP000c038 looks like Ivy and Imani to me, and the next video I agree with @AnLand looks like Sonas ACP000c039 ACP000c03a

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    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Yep, I agree and propose tagging as suggested. Any other suggestions?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Here's an addition to the Ivy and Imani collection ACP000bujh ACP000bujj found by @AnLand (and me) 😃 and we both think that the second female is Yeye. The videos are quite dark but all three are still recognizable.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Okay, I tagged Ivy, Imani, and Sonas in ACP000c038 / ACP000c039 / ACP000c03a and I agree about Ivy, Imani, and Yeye in ACP000bujh / ACP000bujj. I propose tagging these as suggested too. Anyone else want to chime in?

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Does ACP000bn3l look like Imani to anyone else?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Those huge ears and the big nose sure look like Imani's 😃

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Do you think ACP000byx4 is Ivy and Imani?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    I have tagged ACP000bujh / ACP000bujj as suggested (Ivy, Imani, and Yeye).

    I agree about Imani in ACP000bn3l and Ivy and Imani in ACP000byx4. (Ivy's distinctive face visible in the latter). I propose tagging as suggested.

    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    So we have some consensus on Imani in ACP000bn3l and no alternative suggestions about ACP000byx4 so I will tag Imani and Ivy/Imani respectively. If anyone has additional comments, please chime in!

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Ivy and Imani are in ACP000cckn, along with Swing

    enter image description here

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    Posted

  • maureenmccarthy by maureenmccarthy scientist, moderator

    Agreed! Those three are very straightforward I think, so I have tagged them and Kim was already tagged. Also, Arabella was ID'd in the prior video, ACP000cckm, so I tagged her here too. Other suggestions welcome. Also, does anyone know who is following with the ventral infant at the end and in ACP000cckp? Then it looks like La_Pres after those two.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to maureenmccarthy's comment.

    The female with the ventral Infant should be Robin (based on the swelling, baldness, open mouth and size of the Infant). Compare for instance ACP000bdcn and ACP000bumc.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Which (last posting) might indicate that the running juvenile in ACP000cchn could be Kitoko (birdie tuft, fluffy, and a girl).

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    To me Robin's infant looks smaller than the one in ACP000cckp. Robin's infant can't reach around her hips with his/her feet, but this infant has no problem reaching that far.

    infant's feet easily visible around hips

    enter image description here

    no feet visible, just a few days before ACP000cckp

    enter image description here

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    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    In my opinion, Robin's infant has a strange way of hanging very low on Robin's belly, in fact, low and loose, the little butt almost at Robin's knees. That was what irritated us in the beginning as it looks like swinging testicles. In the situation here ( ACP000cckp ) the infant on purpose tries to be higher - as it wants to see the camera (there is a clear camera reaction). Another factor why the kid is higher up might be the log they are crossing.

    The infant looks not smaller than in other footage.

    enter image description here

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    I have actually also no idea who else might this be. Chiara's swelling look different (more round). Lesley has a neater, but similar swelling, but her infant is definitely bigger. Both Chiara and Lesley might have the same extent of baldness. Pandora's baldness is not that big and her swelling also looks different. RSFem14 (with a small kid) has a gray beard, while this female has a very dark face. And also the mentioned juvenile is - in my opinion - rather Kitoko than Sparkle.

    Posted

  • jwidness by jwidness moderator

    Any more thoughts about ACP000cciu and ACP000cciv? (Discussed on pages 3 and 4 of this thread)

    enter image description here

    Posted