Chimp & See Talk

CFFem02(b +c) + CFInf02(b +c) + CFJuv04 - Female with infant (+juvenile)

  • hoothoot by hoothoot

    Found in ACP000b5bs ACP000b5bt

    The forehead of the female appears to be rather bald in a square fashion. The ears are large and sticking out.

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    Good find @hoothoot ! This might be a tough one to match since the video is a bit grainy (at least on my screen), but the baldness you mentioned might help us identify her later! Her ears also stick out quite far as you mentioned which could also help. Let's call her and her infant CFFem02 + CFInf02 for now! 😄

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    This video with a juvenile ACP000b5bx belongs to that scene (starting here ACP000b5bu a minute earlier). It might be her juvenile.

    Not really a match proposal, but here is another female with two kids and baldness. I cannot see much more. ACP000bbf5, ACP000bbf6, ACP000bbf8 (starting in ACP000bbf4 with an adult male)

    enter image description here

    Here with both kids: a juvenile climbing and a dorsal, but rather small infant (better seen in video)

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Another scene of a female with a dorsal infant and a juvenile that might following her ACP000bbsj, ACP000bbsl (female with infant), two empty videos, new minute with juvenile ACP000bbnn (14:13 and 14:14, December 5th, 2012) - all at least with nice and close face shots.

    Some description: big, but not very robust, some baldness, big nostrils, flat nose, slightly rounded brows, but not much. Good to see: all limbs seem to be there and functional. No damage at ears visible. Small adorable infant.

    Juvenile: pinkish face with rounded brows, big nostrils, big ears that stick out a bit (not perfectly round), white anal tuft

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    May I add to your description that the infant is quite bald, a big patch on the forehead and all along the part, which is not very common for infants as you've written somewhere else, @AnLand ?

    Also the juvenile has already some balding along the part and the same big pink ears and face coloring as the infant which make be believe that they are siblings.

    Posted

  • hoothoot by hoothoot

    Nice finds @AnLand !

    I just checked the time stamps, ACP000b5bu ACP000b5bx happen a minute before the female and infant are first seen in ACP000b5bs (8:01 and 8:02, July 26th, 2012,) (see ACP000b5bq for the female's time stamp) , so it could be her juvenile.
    Thus, the first sequence you found starting in ACP000bbf5 could be her and her family; unfortunately it is really difficult to make out the ears in that one to see whether they stick out or not 😕

    In the second sequence starting in ACP000bbsj I can see a definite similarity in the way the juvenile's and the female's ears are sticking out in an upward way, pointed way - you could say almost like cat ears. These "cat ears" can also be seen in the very video (ACP000b5bs), I think.

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    Hmmm, some really good finds here @AnLand! We have some reasons to think this might be the same individual with her kids... female with some baldness (and perhaps the kids too), an infant and likely a juvenile of approximately the same size in all three clips. However, from my own experience with chimp communities, these characteristics wouldn't narrow it down enough to say it's the same female with certainty (multiple females could still fit this characteristic)!

    Let's give the second set of videos the temporary IDs of CFFem02b + CFInf02b ( ACP000bbf5, ACP000bbf6)

    and the third set CFFem02c + CFInf02c ( ACP000bbsj, ACP000bbsl).

    Do you guys feel we have enough to fit a description for the various juvenile clips, or is it better to hold off for now?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think, we should take the juvenile from ACP000bbnn into the temporary list. There is a perfekt face view. Maybe note that it is seen in proximity to CFFem02c. The others do not have any visible traits and we just should keep them in mind.

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    Will do @AnLand ! It will be CFJuv04 until we find a match!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Not much to see, but @Snorticus and @grok00 found this video ACP000b4gy from some minutes earlier which might be the same trio (female and infant and separate juvenile) as CFFem02 etc. (the first sequence posted here by @hoothoot) just climbing in the trees.

    Posted

  • kristinhavercamp by kristinhavercamp scientist

    I have searched through the prospective/known chimp board and I cannot seem to find a "perfect" match for these two chimps (one female adult, one infant probably around 2 years old). These two could possibly be a match with CFFem02c and CFInf02c because the infant has a similar indent in its right ear that reflects the same way as seen in this image of CFInf02c, however I think that the infant in this clip looks quite a bit older than other shots of CFInf02c, and has a lighter face with less of a hair "split" (CFInf02c appears to be balding down the middle)

    for a shot of CFInf02c's ear: enter image description here

    for a shot of CFInf02c's size:
    enter image description here

    and the infant in this video clip:
    enter image description here

    It also appears as though the adult in this clip could be a match with CFFem02c because of the large body size and no damage to the ear (we can see in this video the adult has a perfectly round right ear), however there is not a great shot of the face.

    What do you all think?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    In principle, you already summarized what I am thinking incl. the features. I also thought first about this pair and I see the similarities as well, but the infant looks bigger. And the problem here is CFFem02c is December 2012 while your video should be part of this sequence starting here ACP000b26n and is from August 2012.

    But of course perspective is different ... I am also not sure.

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    I've also struggled with these comparisons a bit. I'm going to move this thread over to the CFFem02 thread to keep it continuous! 😄

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    We lost the video ID from @kristinhavercamp 's suggestion in the process of merging dicussion: ACP000b270

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    @AnLand , thanks!

    Posted

  • northernlimitptv by northernlimitptv scientist, moderator

    This has been a proposed match I've struggled with for a long time. Any one out there care to participate in this discussion?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I am not sure about this proposal...the infant´s size makes me doubt too.

    I think I would reject a match between Fem02/Inf02 and ACP000b270...althought the females do look quite similar, still I could find no nice shot in ACP000b270 to claim that.

    sorry that I can´t help much here 😦

    Posted