Chimp & See Talk

88 ACP000at54 / ACP000at55 / ACP000at56 / ACP000at57

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Here we have a female carrying a small ventral infant, followed by Henry, then an adolescent female (max.swelling) and a male juvenile.

    ACP000at54 :

    enter image description here

    ACP000at56 :

    enter image description here

    ACP000at57 :

    enter image description here

    My two cents are:

    CFFem11 & CFInf11, infants seem to fit, and so does the female´s rear.

    CFFem12 , is the only adolescent in our list, her swelling status fit too.

    and CFJuv06 , associated to CFFem11 and infant, he seems to have sort of a round bald patch on his tuft, which I think we see in the juvenile in ACP000at57 too.

    What do you guys think?

    Posted

  • Buzharevski by Buzharevski scientist, moderator

    I agree for the CFFem11 and accompanying infant suggestion; the back looks very similar in the way it's bent.
    For the latter two I cannot give any definitive statement. The swelling of the female matches CFFem12, although that's as far I would go.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Buzharevski's comment.

    thank you for weighing in,

    anyone?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    For the first female with ventral infant I can agree on CFFem11 as well because of body built and back color. All other females with ventral infants are either slimmer or have no bright part on their lower backs.

    CFJuv06... I don't know. He (?) seems to be larger than the juvenile in ACP000at57.

    I'm playing with the idea that the adolescent female could be either Ayana or Luise. Both females are rather small and since both do not carry an infant they still might be adolescents. E.g. look at this clip of Luise ACP000bcr9 She's much smaller than any adults we've seen here, I think.

    When looking for a possible match I noticed some similarity in the faces of CFFem12 and Luise. Both have relatively bright faces, bent brows and intact ears and I think also their body size is the same. Unfortunately CFFem12 lacks the long hair of Luise or is it just the different light?

    Luise in ACP000aucg

    enter image description here

    and CFFem12 in

    enter image description here

    So what I actually wanted to say is that there's more than one possibility for this young female.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thanks,

    so agreed on CFFem11 & CFInf11

    the other two are too unclear, right?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    for the moment we are going to need a name for CFFem11, and as I can see, @HeikeW has been extremely active in classifying.

    So @HeikeW , would you like to think of a name for this female, please? 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Sorry to be cautious here, but I think this (and quite some other proposals here) is pure speculation. We do not see anything clearly and have no good face view. I also find it odd that within six months, the infant does not grow a bit and even looks smaller in November 2012, than in July.

    I don't think we should just match them together this way. We never did in other sites.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    yes, that´s why I´d rather let the other two unmatched. As for the female matched, there are three opinions in favor.

    It would be nice to know which proposals you think are pure speculation... I have given my reasons to go for certain matches and we argued about them, but I know that these last cases are very difficult, so I would of course understand that we decide to leave them unmatched.

    Do you guys think that it would be safer to leave this female unmatched?

    Thank you 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    If you and the others are 100% sure, you should match. I only provide my opinion.

    In general, yes, I don't think that we see enough in many videos. I don't think that the infant size fits from July to November 2018 here in this video. And I also find it difficult to match based only on age/sex when we have such a small group of clearly identified chimps and no indication - because the majority of videos is coming from only a handful of cameras (the feeding spots) - what part of this group we even have on camera. This is on this site rather more speculation than on others because of how the cameras are positioned. They capture very little from these chimps in terms of "activity" and also in terms of visibility of individual chimps and parties.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Given the fact that we do not see much more of the first female and CFFem11 I think Anja is right: it is too speculative. I agreed only on body built and back color and this should actually not be enough. Probably we are a bit carried away because there's still so much work to do and we'd love to close some cases - but heck, sometimes it's just not possible and CF has a lot of those videos I think... I remember a thread at Dry Lake where we discussed the angle of an ear of a certain lady and we did not match her although all the other traits seemed to fit. So we should be more cautious here I think too. 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thank you ladies, let´s stay conservative and leave the unclear cases unclear.

    no match here.

    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    For the grey-backed female with a small infant and a protruded swelling CFFem15 would fit. She is also followed by a juvenile of the right size. ACP000av1a / ACP000av1c. In this family composition we've also seen: CFFem11 & CFInf11 and CFJuv06.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.

    sorry, which female with protruded swelling do you refer to?

    Posted