Chimp & See Talk

Makena--Travelling female with infant followed by male with brown face

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    @PauDG you asked @Anland in this thread about the female travelling with the male with the brown face in this video ACP000fog2 tagged by @charly03 and @Trier_ and ACP000fog0 (not yet in the spreadsheet).

    I was also trying to match her with all the known chimps but cannot find any that would certainly fit. We assume that her right ear is seriously damaged - at least that's what it looks like from the screenshot I made since the stills are not very good. A big chunk of the ear seems to be missing. She is slim with dark fur with probably only a little grey at her lower back. Her forehead seems to be completly bald, the hair grows only on the back of her head. She has slightly bent whitish eyebrows, and a white beard in a otherwise dark face. The left ear seems to be intact, the ears high set.

    The infant has a bright muzzle, already dark nose and dark mask around the eyes. Fairly straight brows. In contrary to the mother the infant's ears are quite deep set.

    enter image description here

    Still 2
    enter image description here

    All the known females with infants that could fit have intact ears. As for AVFem06 I think her infant is too tall to be this one here. Unfortunately we can't see her right ear in the footage.

    From these videos ACP000f0h5 ACP000f0h6 ACP000f0h7 ACP000f0h8 we know that there are six females with dorsally riding infants in this sequence alone! 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I had a researcher walking after a chimp for classification some time ago and checking whom she might be following, I found ACP000ft8f. Your posting reminded me of this. She has a quite damaged right ear, a beard, slightly rounded brows, a gray back, is very bald and has a small infant switching from ventral to dorsal. What do you think?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Now look at those two! If you ask me, that's a match! 😃 Everything looks very much the same. Thanks for posting this, @AnLand!!

    Slowly we're getting used to Aged-Violet, aren't we? 😉

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    wonderful! I agree with you girls.

    Also AnLand posted in other thread this "The female before her in ACP000g4ds with the ventral infant seems to have a cut in her right ear. Might fit to that other discussion: https://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000s/discussions/DCP0001be7" and I also think is her.

    There are some females with cut ears in the list, and also females without a good view of the ears, I will take a look and i'll be back 😉

    So, we have her in

    AnLand, do you want to select a name??

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Will be the first known female from Aged Violet!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    The honor to name her should maybe go to @Boleyn as I did not even think long enough about her. @Boleyn brought her back on stage and now she is our first female to name at this site. Very nice!

    (Also, I am willing to wait for a decision about AVFem09 and 09b 😃 )

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Thanks a lot AnLand, totally fine to me.

    @Boleyn, will be a pleasure if you name this first female!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    A great pleasure and an honour, thank you very much @AnLand and @PauDG!

    I'll think a bit about it and will be back tomorrow with a name for her. Time to enjoy the nice weather now 😃

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Nice weather??? from where are you from, not Germany, right :p

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Not too far away, Paula, it's Switzerland - and it was a very pleasant evening 😃

    Talking about pleasure: I'm really delighted and happy to name this lovely chimp. Thus I'd like to name her "Makena" which means not only "delighted" in Swahili but also "the happy one" in Hawaiian. 😄

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Perfect name! I am going to add it.

    Many thanks 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    The chimps look always a bit different in the night videos, but the first female in ACP000fu01 seems to have Makena's damaged right ear. The brows are rounded and she is quite bald. I cannot see a beard. The rather small size of her dorsal infant fits. I tried to look for the long nipples in the confirmed Makena's videos, but cannot really see anything. What do you think?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    I think the damaged ear fits quite well with Makena. 😃

    Ans what would you think about AVFem02? we thought that she may have a damaged right ear, and the nipples would fit too...

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    Do you mean that she could be AVFem02 and not Makena, or that Makena, her and AVFem02 could be a match? I agree that AVFem02 has something with her right ear. I looked a bit, but I am not sure, what the actual damage is. The breast would fit with AVFem02 and the missing beard, too. We only have black and white footage from AVFem02 and the nightchimp lady; Makena only in color mode. I need to look into all of them again. I try to during the weekend.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    That's a tough one. I would agree that AVFemale02 and this b/w lady are a match escpecially because of the breasts and the very long nipples.Unfortunately I can never see if Makena has these same long nipples as well. I also think that she might be a bit heavier than these b/w ladies but then this might be exactly due to the b/w coverage.

    I'm also not sure if AVFemale2 and this one here have the same damage in their right ear. To me they do not look very damaged. Sorry, no real help from me 😕

    Edit: I just noticed that Makena's infant has a very bright muzzle, almost white. The same with the kid of AVFemale02 but I'm not sure if the infant of the female above has the same muzzle or if I just can't see it clearly...?

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    My idea was to add also AVFem02 to the match between Makena and ACP000fu01. Let's try to see better the damage, we have many videos from AVFem02, should be visible 😃

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I had some days ago a video for classification and looked for the clip before ACP000fwks: I found this female and after some thinking just want to come back to this discussion. She might be a good link between Makena and AVFem02 - you can clearly see her face, body, and hanging breasts along with the kind of thick nipples. The damage in the right ear is well seen in the video and matches Makena's. As I am quite sure that she is AVFem02, that means that AVFem02 is also Makena, I guess.

    I agree that AVFem02 and this new female might look a bit thinner than Makena, but objectively - there isn't much of a difference and the black-and-white mode might just emphasize this. ACP000fw7n shows the ear damage from AVFem02 perhaps best.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi AnLand,

    I agree with that match too, I see the same ear cut in all of them ( Makena, AVFem02, ACP000fu01, ACP000fw7n , ACP000fwks ) apart of same body shape, this little cute infant...

    Let's do the match!

    @Boleyn, you agreed with the previous proposals, right? Do you agree with this last one?

    Many thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    yes, Paula, she looks very much alike. Thanks for asking! 😃

    The juvenile making the noise in ACP000fwks might be her older child. I'll look into it when I'll find some time if he's around also in the other videos. Might give us an additional certainty.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Greta, thanks Boleyn 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    While looking for the juvenile I noticed that the previous video to a known/confirmed Makena video is not yet tagged with her. It's ACP000fog0 followed by ACP000fog2 (tagged).

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Yes, you're right. I tagged them now as Makena is indeed confirmed without doubt in the following clip. (I hope that is OK for the scientists.)

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Sure, thank you very much 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The female carrying her infant ventrally in these videos ACP000g4dl ACP000g4dm (from the indentifiable list) could be Makena. We know from this video ACP000ft8f also from September that the infant changes the position from ventral to dorsal when it's safe.

    In the first video we can see that she is quite bald. Approaching in the back:

    enter image description here

    Then I made some screenshots to catch her right ear to see if there is a deformation. To me it looks as if yes. Everything else looks very much like Makena to me: built, high-set ears, whitish brows and beard.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    In the first video of this sequence ACP000g4dj we see Eleanor (confirmed). They seem to travel a lot together as we can see also in in the confirmed videos of of both of them. Now if this one get confirmed then I will also be able to come up with a proposal for a juvenile travelling together with those two ladies. 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Hi @Boleyn, although I can´t see her right ear completely, I see this lady very similar to Makena as well. I would support this idea. I see Makena´s long face and baldness in her.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @NuriaM - I think we made a mistake here with ACP000g4dl / ACP000g4dm - because Makena is in this same sequence 5 minutes before crossing the water in ACP000g4ds - here her damaged ear is clearly seen and as far as I can see the chimps all travel in the direction of the camera. I don't think that she went back unseen. What do you think?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    my goodness, you are right!

    thanks @AnLand, good eyes!! 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    oh wow, but these two ladies, Makena and the one in ACP000g4dm have a lot in common. Ventral infant, same face, beard, brows AND the open mouth while walking are similar. I think the only visible difference is the damaged ear of Makena and maybe her baldness, that stretches a little farther back on her forehead.

    Does the new mother get a temporary ID?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    #AVFem15 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    hmmm...I think we have yet another mismatch to Makena. The female in this video ACP000f02l confirmed as Makena doesn't have an obvious deformation in her right ear. At least I am not able to see it. Also the juvenile travelling with her seems to be smaller than the one who is usually around her. I'll make a separate post about him/her.
    I'm not sure yet who else she could be.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    I agree that we need to look into the ear damage. I still think it is there, but will look closer. The juvenile on the other hand is not hers. At the end of the video she picks up a little (ventral) one that fits in size to the infant we've seen with Makena. The juvenile walking next to her might be her offspring, but that is not clear. Others are around.

    See the little head near her belly?

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    @AnLand I'm talking about the juvenile usually travelling with her. See this thread here not the infant she's carrying.

    But I revisited video ACP000f02l again and in still 0 I can see the deformation as well. So this is really Makena.

    enter image description here
    I didn't check out all stills of this video when doubting the damage in my post above. So no mismatch here and I think the juvenile is the same as in the other confirmed Makena videos. I'm going to add him there as well.

    Thanks for opening my eyes 😄

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Oh, great! I missed this last answer during the weekend. So, we're fine with Makena. 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    @MARGILL found this video ACP000g5ch four days ago with Makena (ear damage on the right well seen), her infant, and her older kid. The juvenile has a really long face with interesting brows and should be recognizable as @Boleyn suggested here.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Nice @AnLand thanks, I'm going to post it in the juvenile thread as well 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Thanks girls, tagged as Makena and inf. 😉

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I think in ACP000g0g8 we see again Makena with both of her offsprings. The ear damage is not easy to see, but is - in my opinion - there. She is bald, rather slim, with a bit of a dark gray bear. Her infant is super relaxed and we've seen it traveling now on her back in another video from December 2014. Size fits.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    For comparison a confirmed screenshot.

    enter image description here

    Her older boy has the right size, rather straight brows and a bit of a beard.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I do not really have much support here, but I think that ACP000fp1a is Makena with her infant as well, followed in ACP000fp1e by her older kid. Also in ACP000gcz9, it seems to be Makena's older kid first , followed by Eleanor (I think, I see the ear damage), followed on the right by Makena with her little one. Conclusive traits are hard to see, so it's more an idea for both videos from the identifiable chimps posting.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Yes this is most probably Makena as well in ACP000g0g8 although I cannot see the ear damage well. But based on her infant I would agree. It has this very bright almost white muzzle. Here in ACP000ft8f

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    I agree on the other two proposed videos as well. Her butt in ACP000fp1a looks a lot like Makenas'. In ACP000ft8f (video only) we see a bit of it and that looks very much alike. Again the bright muzzle of the infant and Makena's known features of course suggest the match.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • luca-chimp by luca-chimp

    I too agree with you both, @Ann and @boleyn. This white bearded family is special 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thank you all, agreed 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    In video ACP000gg47 I think we can see Makena with infant, Eleanor and her boy-juvenile. And as the last female in ACP000gg45.

    Makena's right ear is not very well seen but her face, baldness, built, color and breasts look like Makena. And she travels with the usual juveniles.

    enter image description here

    Eleanor

    enter image description here

    and the boy

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    I can´t see this new lady´s right ear well (and it would help a lot 😃 ), but she looks much like Makena to me too, body build, forehead baldness, thin legs, her big breasts...in my opinion it can be a reasonable match

    @PaulDG?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I definitely agree. I posted about that already here (second posting in that thread).

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all!

    I agree that the first one is Makena. The second could be Lya too, don't you think?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    I agree that the other younger chimp is not Eleanor. The left ear here looks perfectly formed, no damage seen. The earlier mentioned "smile" is seen, but I still struggle a bit with Lya and AVFem11 and 10 ... But, yes, rather not Eleanor, probably Lya.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Sorry @AnLand I didn't remember that posting of yours! And yes, I think you're all right, this is rather Lya than Eleanor.

    What do you all think about the second juvenile? Could it be Makenas'? Thread here to compare

    btw s/he still has no name. @NuriaM If you do not hear from @zoogirl1 maybe somebody else should name him/her? The poor fellow does not have a tempID and is just waiting for a name 😕

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Don't worry, I totally forgot about that myself.

    And here another video ACP000eqtu, found yesterday by @Batfan, damaged right ear, beard, baldness, slim figure, infant and juvenile - I would rather say, that's straight forward. The little one seems to have adjusted to life on Mom's back and rather enjoys it.

    It's interesting how her ear changes with perspective.

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    great find, absolutely Makena and family! the little one has still this very bright muzzle but it has grown, no doubt.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    In ACP000fno3, found by @melissaphant, we see again Makena with her infant. Ear damage well seen. Infant prefers the ventral position facing the water. 😃 She doesn't like that. Infant with a very light muzzle. Her face is briefly seen. The big juvenile before them, in ACP000fno2, could / should be her older boy.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all, I agree these 2 females are Makena (ACP000eqtu, ACP000fno3).

    I am confused about what do you mean with Makena's older juvenile.... Is he in the prospective list?? Thanks

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to PauDG's comment.

    It seems that he is not in the prospective list, but I do understand that the match is accepted and @zoogirl1 has been asked for a name. The discussion is here: https://talk.chimpandsee.org/#/boards/BCP000000s/discussions/DCP0001ji6 But that's just my impression. May be it's not.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    you are right @AnLand, we are still waiting for @zoogirl1 to give us a name for Makena´s juvenile.

    she has been already privately notified, so let´s wait...

    @PauDG, do you prefer to give this juv. a temp. ID until we have a name?

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator

    Hi @PauDG,

    The video ACP000eqtu is tagged with a typo in Makena and does not appear in the tag group and ACP000fno3 is not tagged although I think you agreed. The ear damage is well seen in both videos and at least in ACP000eqtu, Jojo seems to follow.

    I also think that with ACP000fno3, ACP000g0g8, ACP000fw3e / ACP000fw3g / ACP000fw3h / ACP000fw3i and ACP000fw7n / ACP000fw7p
    we might be able to establish that Makena's infant is indeed not a boy, but a girl. Sorry for the earlier confusion. She is still a very little girl and I got confused.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi AnLand.

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    This video ACP000fno3 is already tagged as Makena with her infant. Missing in the ID is the juvenile travelling in front of her. I think it's Jojo-Crann because it's a male. The juvenile:

    enter image description here

    And a pic from Makea and her little girl:

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    @PauDG do you agree with the Jojo-Crann tag? Good catch, @Boleyn!

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    You see on page 5 in that discussion that @PauDG did not agree to this. At least not when it was first suggested. But maybe now that we know more about this family and the chimps in general, she will agree. 😃

    Posted

  • ksigler by ksigler moderator in response to AnLand's comment.

    Hmm, I interpreted the confusion back then to be about the juvenile belonging with Makena. It seems like that was worked out. Either way, the clip is still missing the permanent or temporary tag for the juvenile. She'll be able to sort out where things stand. 😃

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to ksigler's comment.

    Yes, but Jojo-Crann is the juvenile associated with Makena. So, it should be him.

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    Hi all. In the pag 5 I think my comment was about other video, because we started talking about ACP000fno3 after this comment... It is a bit risky, because we only see his back, but should be Jojo-Crann 😉

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    ACP000flcz This looks like Makena & her infant to me. I think her right ear is damaged, balding, slim, infant the right size. A male juvenile (possibly Jojo-Crann) comes along earlier in the series at ACP000flcr with another fem & inf and they pause at left of frame, waiting.

    ACP000flcz enter image description here

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Looks like Makena to me too, @Snorticus, right ear damage can be clearly seen. The little one also has this very bright muzzle.

    As for the male juvenile it's quite likely that he is Jojo-Crann, compare the backsides of this recently talked about video ACP000fno3 and your find ACP000flcr There's no good still but the overall size and tuft look the same.

    enter image description here

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • PauDG by PauDG scientist, moderator

    great!! yes, I totally agree, here we have Makena & inf and Jojo-Crann. The other female could be Desta with Azize (swelling and infants size fit)

    Posted