Eliot and Paddy: same young male? missing right index
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by AnLand moderator
@Corcaroli just found this video ACP000dqyw with a young individual and I am thinking whether it is the same young male that we've seen with Cassini and Katie in ACP000droh / ACP000droi. There is quite some baldness (only a narrow stripe but until far on the head; ears close to the head, but undamaged; lighter face, especially the muzzle; only very little rounded brows; and big nostrils. Additionally - but I am not sure here - the index finger of his right hand looks very short.
I think he is male because of the inspection, but there might be also testicles in ACP000droh seen when he is sitting down.
Posted
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by lauraklynn moderator
Tha definitely looks like the same individual to me. Brows, balding pattern and body all match. 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
Hey Anja, you have found another match!! I am sure he is the same individual; apart from all what you and Laura say, his right index is missing in both videos:
from ACP000droh
and from ACP000dqyw
Name? 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
...and I agree with "male" too 😃
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
Great! Thank you! I wasn't really sure about the missing finger, but it definitely looked too short.
I already named recently two individuals, maybe we could ask @Corcaroli or @midnightsun?
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
ok, whatever you prefer 😃
I think @midnightsun has been participating in many discussions of Green Snowflake, and still didn´t name any chimp in any site, right?
@midnightsun, @AnLand kindly offers you the chance to name this injured male chimp, would you like to? 😃
Posted
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by midnightsun in response to NuriaM's comment.
Thank you so much!
I want propose ELIOT for this guy.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.
thanks!!
Eliot fits him 😃
Posted
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by lauraklynn moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.
I know it's spelled differently, but is this an E.T. reference? If so, how clever 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.
LOL!!! I thought of this possibility too 😄
Posted
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by midnightsun
No, sorry. 😦
Posted
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by Snorticus in response to midnightsun's comment.
Still a great name choice for this guy 😃
Posted
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by lauraklynn moderator
Agreed. Good name. And not purposefully naming someone for their flaws isn't a bad thing. Not that a missing finger is anything to be ashamed of, but hopefully you know what I mean.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.
great name anyway 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
I think @charly03 found Eliot again in this video ACP000drca He has quite a unique look and when moving his right hand we can see that there's something odd about it.
Eliot:
@PauDG I have a question about the age of this chimp: From body size I wonder that he's ranking under the known males. He looks more like a subadult to me compared to the female he's inspecting. Or is it common that adult males can be smaller than females?
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
Hi @Boleyn , I agree with you, this guy looks very much like Eliot to me. I can´t see his right hand very clearly, but I think he lacks is right index too:
from ACP000drca :
what do others think? is this guy Eliot?
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
@Boleyn, Paula won´t be around for some days, so let me answer your question 😃
Eliot looks like a late adolescent to me; he still didn´t reach the adult size. Adolescents have 2/3 the adult size, and in males, their testis have already descended. Their face has already darkened a bit but is still lighter than the adult´s. Also, you will often see them walking independently.
I put him in the adult´s group because he´s closer to the adult´s age than to the juvenile´s (and we don´t have an "adolescent" category). As you say, he looks like a subadult 😉
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.
Thanks for the explanation, @Nuria ! 😄
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
;]
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000dsnu - Found by @charly03 - I think this is Eliot again. Easier to see in the video but I think he is also missing his left index finger.
ACP000dsny - Later in the series, here is his face.
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.
You're absolutely right @Snorticus that's Eliot and he's missing the index finger on his left hand as well.
Proof is video ACP000droh of Eliot: when you stop around second 9 you can very well see the missing finger as well as the very long middle finger.And in your new video ACP000dsnu
Posted
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by Snorticus in response to Boleyn's comment.
ACP000droh Yes that lighting & view are close & clear, @Boleyn It seems odd that the index is shortened/missing on both of his hands.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
yes, that´s Eliot again. A chimp with his two index fingers missing 😕
Thanks!
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
In ACP000dnad, most right here - video classified and tagged by @Corcaroli - is Eliot again.
Posted
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by Batfan
In ACP000dr1f there's a chimp with a missing left index finger. Could this be Eliot too? Sorry, despite all your earlier efforts @Anland, I still haven't worked out how to post photos. Will really try to get to grips with this soon.
Posted
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by lauraklynn moderator in response to Batfan's comment.
@Batfan, it is probably Eliot in the video and I think the other individual is Cassini, as his right hand is bent at an odd angle. Not to mention, they have been seen together at this location before. From ACP000dr1f:
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
yes, Eliot right and Cassini left 😃
Thank you!!!!
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
thanks @AnLand, Eliot again in ACP000dnad 😃
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000draj - found by @Corcaroli Looks like Eliot. (and I think the other chimp is Cassini again but can't tell for sure)
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000dsg1 Found by @AnLand agree looks like Eliot for sure, and probably Cassini.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.
Absolutely!!
the guys in ACP000draj and in ACP000dsg1 are Cassini and Eliot.
thanks!!
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
I just realized that GSMale04 should be Eliot as well, or? I think that the description in the known/prospective list is a bit misleading - he is a young chimp and has a relatively light face in comparison to full adults (but dark compared to juveniles, of course). He has also a small dent or spot under the right eye that we might see in other clips as well. Brows, balding, ears agree. I did not get a good view on the fingers.
GSMale04
Eliot
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
I think that the sequence on July 29th, 2013 is Eliot as well: ACP000dmie, ACP000dmg3, ACP000dma9, ACP000dmaa
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
I think ACP000dop0 - found by @Corcaroli - is Eliot as well.
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
Maybe he is also GSUnclear04 (but here the brows look a bit different, or?)
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
GSMale for is Eliot, I agree. The video is taken shortly after a confirmed Eliot/Cassini sequence and he really looks like Eliot.
As for the series ACP000dmie, ACP000dmg3, ACP000dma9, ACP000dmaa probably yes to Eliot as well although the light is quite different and makes his face look a bit odd. But same traits.
I can also agree on ACP000dop0 but I'm equally not sure about the match to GSunclear04. Although the face color, baldinge tc looks quite like Eliot the brows are seemingly more bent. I think I can also see all fingers on the right hand of GSUnclear04?
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
This is more a guess: ACP000dr26 and ACP000dsfq (found by @depuppy3) might show - in front of the tree - Eliot. It's a young male and I think that the left index finger is missing. But it's really hard to see.
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000dsn2 - more of Eliot found by @junemb at the log (with Cassini).
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
Thanks Anja,
I agree with you, GSMale04 is Eliot.
Seguence: ACP000dmie, ACP000dmg3, ACP000dma9, ACP000dmaa is Eliot again: traits fit and you can see how he is missing his left finger in ACP000dma9.
ACP000dop0 : Eliot again
As for GSUNCLEAR04, I don´t think he is Eliot:
Eliot in ACP000dqyw
and GSUNCLEAR04 in ACP000dsrw
Brows and eyes look different to me, what do you think?
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
As for ACP000dr26 / ACP000dsfq I think you are right, that coud be Eliot. I need more opinions, but I would support this 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.
Thanks @Snorticus, yes this is Eliot. Anja suggested the GSMale04 could be Eliot and I absolutely agree with her 😃
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
This video ACP000ds0o might help us with Eliot and GSUnclear04 - I just had it for classification and think we have both (yes, different) individuals in it.
I think that we see Katie on the trunk (see her right hand) and her juvenile. Some other chimps on the left. And GSUnclear04 is behind the log and leaving (more curved brows, ears stick out a bit more and at least for the right hand there are four fingers). Entering and staying at the log on the other hand is Eliot. You see at least the missing index on his left hand and I find his ears closer to the head and recognizable. So, we have indeed two quite similar young (late adolescent) males.
I think that behind the log is GSUnclear04 (see facial features and fingers)
Eliot's missing finger, ears and face profile
Katie's hand
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
Absolutely! so you have found Eliot, Katie and another match: GSUNCLEAR04 and ACP000ds0o. He is by the way a male (see sec.06 of ACP000ds0o).
Would you like to name him? 😃
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
Great! I would like to give this naming opportunity away to another volunteer. Thanks!
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
Thanks Anja, that´s very nice of you.
@Batfan has been participating in this Eliot´s long thread, and still didn´t name any chimp at GS. @Batfan, would you like to give us a name for GSUNCLEAR04:
and ACP000ds0o? :
Posted
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by Batfan
Very many thanks for that Nuria and Anja. I would absolutely love to name him. How does Paddy sound? Very happy to change this if you don't think it suitable.
Posted
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by Snorticus in response to Batfan's comment.
Paddy is an excellent name for this chimp 😃
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000dma3 - just classified this one, looks like Eliot. His face is kinda scrunchy because he is such a vigorous chewer, heh. He's missing his right index finger. Looks like it is close to the same time as ACP000dmg3.
ACP000dmg3 - Compare to Eliot here:
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Batfan's comment.
I love Paddy . Now I´m thinking of Paddy Considine (The Bourne Ultimatum) 😃
THANKS!!
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.
Yes, that´s Eliot again, thanks @Snorticus!! 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
More of Eliot in this video: ACP000drs1 (20 minutes after confirmed clip ACP000dsnu)
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
ACP000dtni - Eliot on the left (ear and missing finger) and Petra on the right (swelling and brows)
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
Thanks!!
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Another Eliot video I just found (I think) ACP000drjl
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
Thanks Heidi, and I think the one behind could be Cassini. There is a Cassini + Eliot series taken on 12/28/2012, and this video might belong to it. However, I can´t see Cassini´s twisted hand 😕
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
Yes, the video is already in the official list and the minute falls between ACP000dsg1 (minute 151), then ACP000drjl (minute 152), and then ACP000dsld (minute 154). So, the flanking videos already confirmed.
In between ACP000drs1 (minute 153) should be both of them, too.
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
ACP000dkrm (found by @Corcaroli) - in front should be Eliot, too. Looks similar and I think I see the missing finger at least on his right hand. Not sure, who the other adult is, or the juvenile.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
Thanks Anja!
ACP000dkrm : Eliot and... somehow the other one reminds me of Vala??? Look at those brows:
Vala in ACP000dnbo
and ACP000dkrm :
what do you think?
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
It seems @Batfan has found another Eliot video ACP000dqyu at least this chimp looks very much like him. His right index finger can be seen very clearly in this clip. I thought it was considered quite short but it looks as if only the tip is missing (if at all) and the front part looks a bit thin and bright but is still there! 😃
Posted
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by Snorticus
@Batfan found another Eliot - ACP000dmac
confirmed by Nuria in - ACP000dmaa - ACP000dma9
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
Thanks Heidi,
the video that you mean ( ACP000dqyu ) is part of this Eliot series:
ACP000dsg1 (...)
There´s something weird in Eliot´s right index; sometimes you see it and sometimes not 😕
Posted
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by AnLand moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.
I meanwhile think that there is a right index finger (at least most of it), but he can't extend it.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.
Thanks 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
yep 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
I just had this video for classification and I'm not totally sure if it is showing Eliot. ACP000dlvx
There's not really very much to see. But I think the size and color and also the brows would fit Eliot - only this balding spot seems to be bigger than Eliots and he has some very nasty bumps on the side.Posted
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by lauraklynn moderator
Looks like Eliot in all of these:
ACP000dn53 I think I see Cassini’s hand and possibly Vala next to him as well
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
ACP000dxa4 (found by @charly03) might be Eliot again, but he is traveling fast. Young male with a lighter face, straight eyebrows and balding.
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Eliot and Cassini ACP000drjn already confirmed inACP000drjl
Posted
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by Snorticus
(Cross posting) ACP000dsmy - more of Eliot & Cassini - confirmed in ACP000dsn2
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
ACP000dlvx ; it really looks like Eliot, but I need more evidence...let´s wait for more videos of this series to come.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
ACP000dxa4 I agree that might be Eliot, thoughts?
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.
Thanks ladies 😃
Posted
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by lauraklynn moderator
Eliot?
Posted
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by AnLand moderator in response to lauraklynn's comment.
Yes, that is Eliot, I agree. Facial traits and body build fit and while walking we can see at least the left hand well enough to see the missing index finger. Great find!
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
That´s Eliot. Great!!
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
@Snorticus thinks this is Eliot and I support it: ACP000dl27
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
I support it too 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Probably Eliot found by @Corcaroli in ACP000dm1y and AnLand says Eliot as well in the last clip of the minute ACP000dm23
and Petra and Siena/infant in ACP000dtc2 ACP000dtc3 ACP000dtc5
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
Yes to Eliot, confirmed in ACP000dmg3 (...)
...and yes to Petra and Siena 😃
thanks!!
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Looks like Eliot in ACP000dlz8 He has been there 2 hours earlier on the same morning seen in ACP000dm23 and I'm positive he's still there, eating - resting - eating - resting... 😃
from ACP000dm23
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
yes, that´s Eliot
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Laura suggested Eliot for this chimp in ACP000dorp and ACP000dort He's been seen here about 20' later and I also think it's him.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
Yessss, I agree on Eliot 😃
Posted
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by midnightsun
I think in ACP000dvd9 (found by @puddock) and ACP000dvdb (found by @Corcaroli) we see Eliot again. It's a young male, straight brows, undamaged ears close to the head. Color of face, hands, and balls(!) are lighter. The testicles are also very round and big. With the rather narrow hips and the prominent cushions on the butt (what's that called?), we should be able to identify him from the back view only.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.
Thanks!
that´s Eliot. We have been doubting about his right finger, and here we see that he does have one. Not clearly seen, but the left index is missing.
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator in response to midnightsun's comment.
@midnightsun the cushion on the males rears is called "callousy cushion" 😃
@NuriaM would you please confirm Eliot in this series: ACP000dt0s ACP000dt0u ACP000dt0v ACP000dt0w
There are probably more of Eliot around this time. Thanks!Edit: and a new one of this entire sequence found by @Corcaroli also with Petra featuring Eliot 😃 ACP000dsyj
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
Thanks, confirmed and also I have noticed that there was a mistake in the list; these 5 videos of the Petra sequence
ACP000dtt7
ACP000dtj2
ACP000dtj5
ACP000dtj8
ACP000dtjbhad Petra and Siena, but I have realized that Siena is not Siena but Eliot instead.
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.
Ah that's why I was confused seeing Siena's name in that long list. Glad you found the "bug" 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
😉
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Nuria could you pls. confirm Eliot in ACP000dqzf ACP000dqzh and ACP000dqzj ? He's identified 6 minutes earlier here. Thanks!
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
confirmed 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Nuria, you and Anja already suggested the second chimp in the following videos to be Eliot. Could you please confirm? Thanks!
Spreadsheet from ACP000dsvi through ACP000dt04 I think these are all with Eliot as well.
I added Eliot and sometimes also Petra to all the other videos in the sequence, because some of them had already been confirmed. Hope that's ok 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
Great! thanks Heidi 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Nuria, you made a question mark about Eliot in videos ACP000dr26 and ACP000dsfq
Now in ACP000dsfm we can definitely see that it is Eliot.
Another video shows Eliot as well, passing the tree: ACP000dtec (suggested by Anja, I agree)
And more of Eliot in ACP000dtri and ACP000dtrl
I'm not finished yet: Eliot also together with Petra in ACP000dssl He is confirmed 6 minutes earlier but goes away and comes back so we need confirmation. Thanks!
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
confirmed...thanks!
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
ACP000do7g - this is Eliot.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
thanks 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
In these videos Sal, Vala and her infant are already confirmed. I would like to add Eliot as the very left one. I think Sal is second from left, correct?
ACP000dmve ACP000dmvf ACP000dmvg ACP000dmvh
Thanks!
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
yes, Sal is the second left, and Eliot the first one. He is confirmed in ACP000dmz7 , two minutes later.
Thanks 😃
Posted
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by Snorticus
ACP000dt6f - ACP000dt6h - ACP000dt6j - ACP000dt6l - This looks like Eliot with his missing index finger and pale muzzle etc. walking in & sitting behind tree then moving to left side.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Snorticus's comment.
yes, Eliot with Petra. I´m not sure about the female with infant sitting behind the tree 😕
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.
When she arrives we see her in ACP000dt6f very shortly in profile. Slightly grey back, small swelling, sticking out right ear, protruding brows, skinny infant with big tuft riding sideways. These two look like Vala and infant to me. 😃
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
Oh, yes! I think you are right!
Any more thoughts?
Posted
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by AnLand moderator
ACP000d0zc - This is Eliot.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to AnLand's comment.
yes 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
Voting for Eliot in this clips ACP000dobf and ACP000dobh Backside well seen in second clip, dark hair, uneven testies best seen in video, and following Vala = Eliot 😃
Posted
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by Snorticus in response to Boleyn's comment.
ACP000dobf and ACP000dobh - I vote Eliot here also, muzzle & brow are quite light, uneven testis, light spot over anus, callus on each side
ACP000dm6s - Compare to Eliot here - compare rears, uneven testis, light spot over anus, callus on each side.
ACP000dobh - rear view
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator
Great!
thank you ladies 😃
Posted
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by Boleyn moderator
I think we have Eliot in this video ACP000dmse
Size, dark back and his testies are uneven. The other possibility would be Paddy from color and size, but his testies are more even. Compare both chimps backsides here: ACP000dn7rPosted
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by lauraklynn moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
I'm not real familiar with everyone's backsides, but I agree it looks more like Eliot than Paddy.
Posted
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by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.
That´s Eliot, I am sure. Look at his left hand at sec. 7 (and adjust brightness 😉 ). Thanks chicas!
Posted