Chimp & See Talk

Lonn: New male in town

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Finally the last video of the initial Yakini clips popped up for classification and I'm quite sure it shows a new male ACP000dmvl The 3rd clip from this sequence (k) is not yet in classification but I'm going to use it anyway for a still of this male.

    He's big and robust, has a lot of grey on the back and the back of his legs. The neck is grey as well as his beard. The right ear looks crumpled, bent forward and also the left one is bent forward. He's got a narrow, almost straight bald spot, a round protruding muzzle, an even nose with a crease. His eyes lay deep under his most remarkable trait: his brows. The inner part is alsmost white, protruding and bent in the middle, the outer part is without ostentation, which gives him a grim look. All his fingers seem to be ok 😃

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    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun

    But he could also be GSMale09, or? I think the long face, the balding pattern, and the high eyebrows look very similar. The ears are not well seen, but they are close to the head and might be (at least the left one) a bit irregular as well.

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Wow! he is impressive...

    Thanks @midnightsun for your proposal 😃

    I see GSMale09 slightly different: this new guy ( #GSMale14 ) has quite distinctive brows that give him like an "angry look". Also, his bald patch is sort of divided into two parts, a small round patch at the top and another one a bit bigger below, like a "snowman" 😃 :

    GSMale14 in ACP000dmvk (unclassified) :

    enter image description here

    and GSMale09 in ACP000dph2 :

    enter image description here

    Also, I see GSMale09 a bit leaner than GSMale14, what do you think?

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thanks Heidi for your great description 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    You're very welcome, Nuria! Over the time I've learned that a detailed description helps quite a lot to compare chimps, especially chimps who have a lot in common. But of course I also have to read them and it happens more often than not that I forget it 😛 😃

    Posted

  • midnightsun by midnightsun in response to NuriaM's comment.

    I think the "angry look" of the eyebrows is caused by the direct sunlight from above. The brows are definitely higher and have a sharp ankle (like Vala's), but I see this in GSMale09 etc. (now Fouts), too. Compare also the wide nostrils, the beard, the ears, the grey legs and back. I would not rule out Fouts at the moment.

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus

    GSMale09 now Fouts, looks to have much bigger nostrils to me. The brow ridge has a longer arch, and the bald spot is different to my eye. (so 2 different chimps, I think)

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    GSMale14 new guy

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    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    @midnightsun , you are right with taking the light effect into account, but I still see those faces different:

    I think Fouts brow ridge is more in the middle, while GSMale14´s brows curve more on the sides 😕

    left Fouts in ACP000dp61 right GSMale14 in ACP000dmvl

    enter image description here

    Fouts brows look like an "M" , while GSMale14´s brows look like a "V" to me.

    But I am open to read more arguments in favor of this match 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    This is Fouts walking away from the log in a similar position. Here we can see that his hair is darker and also longer than GSMale14's hair and the differences of the brows and the nose is quite obvious. Additionally Fouts has this special hair pattern around the elbows giving him the popeye look 😃.

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    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I remembered this video where we can see a big male sniffing the ground but I did not recognize Yakini as suggested in the comment. Instead I think I see the characteristic face of GSMale14 here. Same narrow V-shaped brows, built, color everything fits I think. He really looks grim 😃

    First a bit hidden behind the trunk in ACP000dsjb and then turning around and leaving in ACP000dsjc

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    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    The first chimp in this video ACP000czfx might also be GSMale14. It's quite a fast szene but what makes me think of him is the shape of the muzzle which is somehow pointing forward as well as the brows and the overall hair color and size.

    enter image description here

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    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    Thanks Heidi 😃

    I agree on ACP000dsjb / ACP000dsjc , same brow and bald spot shape, ears that point a bit out, body build, etc.

    left: GSMale14 in ACP000dmvl , right ACP000dsjc :

    enter image description here

    ACP000czfx : he looks like GSMale14, but he walks too fast, I can´t be absolutely sure about it.

    Thoughts?

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Before he gets completely burried down deep in the list I would like to ask for opinions about this match proposal. Thanks a lot!

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to Boleyn's comment.

    ACP000dsjc - traits look like the same guy to me, eyebrow tilt, muzzle shape, bald spot shape, ear placement far back on the head, grey back & legs.

    It well could be him in ACP000czfx but the chimp face is just too brief and far for me to see enough detail to say for sure.

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thanks for weighing in here, Dawna! 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator

    thanks Dawna!

    Heidi, no worries, he wouln´t get burried in the list, as the list is going to be rechecked, so even if some threads remain temporarily unsolved, I will go back to them at the end. But anyway, I am very happy to go back to this guy again, and I thank Dawna for confirming our suspicions 😃

    ACP000dsjb / ACP000dsjc = GSMale14

    ACP000czfx : unmatched

    So we have another beautiful matched male waiting for a name...Heidi, you´ve found him, discussed about him and matched him; do you feel like naming him? 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    YES! Thank you so much, Nuria, I knew you would not forget him but I'm eager to eventually name my third chimp at Green-Snowflake! 😛 😄

    I'd like to name him Lonn which is a Gaelic name and means fierce because of his fierce brows

    >:)

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    sooooo coooool!!! I love Lonn, "ready for battle; strong, warlike" , it absolutely fits him 😃

    thanks!!

    Posted

  • MimiA by MimiA scientist, moderator

    great name!!

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    I think @AnLand and @Batfan found Lonn again in videos ACP000dxbg and ACP000dxbi It's the second chimp appearing. Right when he enters the screen at the right when you stop the video you can see his fierce brows. Also the forward bent right ear and the protruding bright muzzle, size and grey back correspond with Lonn.

    Stills are not very good:

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    **

    agreed...also, I would add the bald patch shape to your list of similarities (you mean left ear, right? I can´t see the right one 😕 )

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to NuriaM's comment.

    LOL - yes, I meant the left ear :b :p

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    @AnLand suggest Fouts in ACP000czfx following Lonn. This would make two votes for each of them 😄

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    three votes 😃

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    We haven't seen him for quite some time but @HeikeW found Lonn again in ACP000d0yq

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    Yay!!!!

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    enter image description here

    ACP000dscf

    I post this male here, because he seems to have this snowman - like baldness. His big and sturdy stature seems to fit, also the grey head and back.
    However I am not sure at all about the facial marks.

    This is the only bit of the video (12-03-2012 11:11) I could find showing him and as I´m not good in face recognition in chimps as in humans, I leave the suggestions for you. 😃

    enter image description here

    Posted

  • Snorticus by Snorticus in response to HeikeW's comment.

    ACP000dscf - Hi @HeikeW This guy looks like Fouts to me because of the long hair that stands up on the top of his shoulders. ACP000dr1a is 2 minutes before this clip & Fouts is in that same spot. If Nuria confirms we can add another chimp to this series of clips! Thanks for pointing this guy out 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    Thank you HeikeW 😃

    don´t worry about your abilities on face recognition, we all have needed a bit of time too. And still it is sometimes very tricky and we have unclear cases.

    I agree with Snorticus, I´m sure this guy is Fouts 😃

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    I´m quite puzzled that I really confused Lonn with Fouts. After having considered Fouts and having read this discussion twice. Now his nostrils seem bigger to me. Thank you for making me learn ;-D

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    One of Fouts most distinctive traits are his shoulders; he has sort of "shoulder tufts" 😃

    thanks so much for your participation @HeikeW

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    GSMale05c as seen in ACP000dxdb looks very much like our Lonn and not as the proposed match with GSMale05 in the early days of Greensnowflake. The typical Lonn-look is better seen in the video than in a still. We need three votes for him 😃

    Thanks!

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    yes, I think he looks like Lonn, you have my vote. Anyone else?

    Posted

  • HeikeW by HeikeW

    ACP000dxbgenter image description here
    ACP000dxdbenter image description here
    When I confused Fouts and Lonn I considered GSMale05 for even more confusion. But with this control - video: Yes, I can recognize Lonn. 😉

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator

    Thank you so much @HeikeW for stepping in! I just like our lonely warrior Lonn! 😃

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to HeikeW's comment.

    Thank you!!

    Posted

  • hoothoot by hoothoot

    Given that we mainly see a lot of fur around the shoulders, I had to think of Fouts and his shoulder tufts. Is this him ?

    ACP000dgp4

    Posted

  • Boleyn by Boleyn moderator in response to hoothoot's comment.

    That would be nice but I think he's not Fouts. This I think is group 2 territorry. But I need to check whether we have seen group 1 members here as well.

    Posted

  • AnLand by AnLand moderator in response to Boleyn's comment.

    We've never seen group 2 here. We did see the Ngogo chimps here and group 1 (Cassini etc.) in the nightchimps episode.

    By the way, there is an order in the Ngogo or basically any site chimp video collection - kind like a spatial progression. This does not mean that you know everything about the location and with that our assumptions about the groups, but there is a logic behind the order here that can be used as a guide to check assumptions.

    Also, territory sounds kind of fixed, but of course there is no border - or wall! - and groups can venture in and out unharmed as long as the other group is currently not actually there. We do not know who's territory that is. We only see certain individuals and with that groups there. Yes, chimps are territorial, but actual territory means also how far away is the other group ... can we risk it today ... let's check it out (or not).

    Posted

  • NuriaM by NuriaM scientist, moderator in response to hoothoot's comment.

    thanks hoothoot 😃

    this video is very tricky; I can only see an adult male with a slightly grey back. You are right about the pointy hair, but I think it is more down his neck, rather than shoulders? Not sure about Fouts, I think Fouts looks a bit more "bony"...

    Posted